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More Wyrm tribes - chronicle idea

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  • More Wyrm tribes - chronicle idea

    This is a thought experiment. How would the game be different if there were more than one Wyrm tainted tribe? I am not talking about an increase in the number of Wyrm tainted Garou, just that the Black Spiral Dancers don't have the monopoly on that. The total number stays at 10% of the Garou population, or whatever the number is.

    I am also talking about something different than the Apocalypse scenario A Tribe Falls. None of the Gaian tribes cease or fall in this scenario. And certainly none of the tribal Incarna fall.

    This is more along the lines of either there were always more than one Wyrm totem for fallen Garou (say a tribe of Bat as well as Whippoorwill), or that newly fallen Garou, instead of joining the BSDs somehow are adopted by another fallen Wyrm spirit, or perhaps a group of Ronin do the same.

    Would these Wyrm tribes get along as allies, or would they fight against each other as competitors? Or something inbetween?

    Would all such tribes need their members to walk the Labyrinth, or would that be unique to the Black Spiral Dancers?

    How would it affect the setting if early on there were more than one Wyrm tribe? Or if today a brand new Wyrm tribe suddenly appeared and was small and growing?

    Would you have a favorite candidate to serve as the tribal totem(s) of one or more new Wyrm tribes? This might be one of the canonical BSD pack totems, or a brand new spirit you think is appropriate.

    How would this affect the setting in other ways? Would it change the actions or response by the Garou? What opportunities do you see for the ST? Does it add anything, or even subtract anything to the setting? Or would it be superfluous?

    I have my own thoughts, but rather than prejudice responses I'd like to hear yours first. I am playing with this idea in my head as a possible element for a future chronicle, and want to see reactions and how it could play out.

  • #2
    Having multiple tribes under the banner of the corrupter would imply that things are way worse than in the main game (they have greater numbers and a more open run of things to facilitate having multiple avenues of corruption), but also potentially that the enemy is even more given to infighting and being set against each other. It would also mean that most Fera are even less likely to have a positive view of Garou, since there's an even greater likelihood that the werewolves that one meets are not just flawed genocidal maniacs, but outright malign omnicidal maniacs or patient deceivers and corrupters.

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    • #3
      Well BSD would, in theory, be forbidden to work against other agents of the Wyrm. That would be true, even if a new faction would arise and compete with them for fallen garou and ronin to be pressured into their ranks.
      If they follow another being and possibly some agent of the Wyrm that is powerful enough to grant power and "understanding" in a way equal to what the Labyrinth can accomplish, then "no", they would not need it. If you thing nephandi and Lovecraftian horrors, there might be beings beyond Creation, who would be equally powerful to Celestines and the Triat. Such beings goals and methods could be un-discernable to the Wyrm's methods.

      Another approach could be that the triatic wyrms split their own sub-tribes out of the mainstream BSDs.

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      • #4
        If numbers stay the same it would make things easier on the Gaians. The vast majority of Wyrm followers don't get along Urge Wyrms hate other Urge Wyrms, the majority of Maeljin loathe one another Pentex actively works against other Wyrm Cults and BSDs that aren't Company Wolves.

        Adding more conflict to the pile will add to the heads of the hydra snapping at each other in their madness.

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        • #5
          I'm not sure how it would impact the game overall, but probably the easiest set up would be to have three Wyrm tribes devoted to each facet of the Wyrm (Beast of War, Eater of Souls, Corruptor). The three Pure Tribes from Forsaken might offer ideas for the three.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #6
            IMO only the BSDs would walk the Spiral. Other Wyrm tribes would have their own ways of initiating members.

            I heard somewhere that the Hakken Totem is Raiden (the Shinto god of thunder and lightning). What do you guys think of this?


            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Penelope View Post
              I heard somewhere that the Hakken Totem is Raiden (the Shinto god of thunder and lightning). What do you guys think of this?
              My general impression over the years has been that, in Werewolf's "humans are definitely not the center of things" cosmology, almost all of humanity's sky/storm gods are ultimately just reflections/manifestations of Grandfather Thunder.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                My general impression over the years has been that, in Werewolf's "humans are definitely not the center of things" cosmology, almost all of humanity's sky/storm gods are ultimately just reflections/manifestations of Grandfather Thunder.
                I think so as well.

                Which doesn't mean, that Hakken might not address Thunder as Raiden, for it might be the appropriate terminology for their region.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                  IMO only the BSDs would walk the Spiral. Other Wyrm tribes would have their own ways of initiating members.

                  I heard somewhere that the Hakken Totem is Raiden (the Shinto god of thunder and lightning). What do you guys think of this?

                  Honestly Raiden is more like the Totem Typhon. Tenjin is probably closer to the Grandfather Thunder in his Respect aspect.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                    Well BSD would, in theory, be forbidden to work against other agents of the Wyrm.
                    Where does that come from? Is it a result of the Dark Litany or something else? If it's the Dark Litany, it should be kept in mind there are other portions that could conflict with it. And the BSD's shouldn't be less prone to disobedience or intertribal conflicts than their Gaian counterparts over interpretations of the Litany, or even ignoring it when that meets their needs.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                      IMO only the BSDs would walk the Spiral. Other Wyrm tribes would have their own ways of initiating members.
                      I think that makes sense, but it puts the pressure on any ST to devise an alternative method of transmogrification. I suppose as inspiration we could look to other areas of Malfeas that could serve as the location of such rites. The Labyrinth is supposed to be accessed via the Temple Obscura. So maybe the Earth Pit or Garden of Nightmares could form the basis, or some other existing feature. Or we could create our own new features of Malfeas. But the occult concept and flavor of walking the spiral is very strong, and I'd want something similarly strong in feel.

                      I think reviewing the stories of Arthur Machen, especially The White People, would help in this regard. After all, "walking the spiral" isn't very different from children walking turf mazes called Troy Town which is mentioned in that story. Or a reread of T.E.D. Klein's The Ceremonies which is an extended rift/homage to it.

                      If people have any evocative ideas they'd like to share, I think it'd be useful.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lian View Post


                        Honestly Raiden is more like the Totem Typhon. Tenjin is probably closer to the Grandfather Thunder in his Respect aspect.
                        Typhon is a giant dragon. I wouldn't implicate either one, quite frankly. The Hengeyokai book was rather concerned about Susano'o, though.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                          I'm not sure how it would impact the game overall, but probably the easiest set up would be to have three Wyrm tribes devoted to each facet of the Wyrm (Beast of War, Eater of Souls, Corruptor). The three Pure Tribes from Forsaken might offer ideas for the three.
                          That's certainly one inspiration. I look for existing hooks to see if they can be exploited. For example, the game had several camps of Garou that would eat humans. There were the Man Eaters in the Bone Gnawers and the Eaters of the Dead in the Silent Striders. And all tribes likely have some individuals who do so, just not to the extent of these organized groups in these tribes. And its probably something some Ronin do as well. So this theoretically would be easy to organize if one group actually fell and began protecting/recruiting similar Garou. In my own chronicles, I have a corrupted Fly as a powerful Wyrm totem on par with the canonical ones. And Fly of course eats dead rotting meat, so it's a natural choice as a totem for a group of Man Eaters. This is what actually prompted me to ask the question.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Black Fox View Post

                            And its probably something some Ronin do as well.
                            IIRC, one of the two Ronin templates from WoD Outcasts is this.


                            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, I have man eating be fairly prevalent in my chronicles - about the extent of drug addiction among people. About 5% have done it within the past five years, and 1% are ongoing man-eaters. This is concentrated in certain areas - like the aforementioned camps. So many septs and even tribes don't have a problem, but others do especially the Bone Gnawers.

                              So if I started a Wyrm tribe based on man eating, it'd start with less than 1% (assuming it could attract most Garou who have a severe problem with it, which would still take time). Not a major threat. But the potential for growth is still there.

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