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  • W20 Older book content compatibility

    Greetings,

    Does W20 supersede all previous edition books? Specifically the Gifts, Merits, Flaws and Fetishes. Are those still usable (unless updated by W20)?

    Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
    Greetings,

    Does W20 supersede all previous edition books? Specifically the Gifts, Merits, Flaws and Fetishes. Are those still usable (unless updated by W20)?

    Thanks
    Depends on the group really. I take the stance that the newest iteration of a Power, Merit/Flaw, etc. are the ones that will be used while those that haven't been updated in newer editions are handled on a case by case basis.


    Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AkatsukiLeader13 View Post
      Depends on the group really. I take the stance that the newest iteration of a Power, Merit/Flaw, etc. are the ones that will be used while those that haven't been updated in newer editions are handled on a case by case basis.
      We discuss what rule suits our play style best. Most changes made things better, though.

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      • #4
        While I'd generally exclude 1e, 2e and Rev. WtA are fairly close mechanically, and W20 is to them for it. I'd say ~75% things from those editions that haven't been reprinted can be used whole cloth without any issues, and another ~20% can be used with a bit of adjusting

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        • #5
          Most things work. I don't think W20 really is 'complete' like v20 is, and so falling back to prior books is not a problem, possibly recommended. There's a few things from older books that're just absolutely awful either mechanically (A certain gift that has every second hit heal you) or fluff wise (Nazi fenrir) but then again there are still things awful in v20, mechanically a few gifts stick out, and fluff awful isn't gone either.



          Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
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          • #6
            W20 would have needed a lot more supplements. It's just the nature of how WtA would add new powers all the time because you can toss in a new Gift, Rite, etc. without worrying about things like creating a full Discipline list, or trying to work out a Combo Discipline (well VtM could have used these more, but opted to make have these only in a few places).

            If W20 tried to update every Gift, Rite, Fetish, Talen, Totem, and so on? We're talking easily 200 pages of material.

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            • #7
              You could probably do such a book (Gifts of Gaia or something) that included updated versions of almost all the Garou gifts and rites. And maybe an index of where all of them appear. It'd be an interesting STV thing, at least.

              But most of the material tends to be comparable across editions. (The major exception is anything related to Renown between first and second edition.)



              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                I was thinking of the Tribebooks gifts, rites and fetishes. Also the fetishes in Hammer & Klaive (loved the Hunter's Necklace and Favour of Fenris).

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                • #9
                  A lot of us were hoping for some W20 equivalent to V20's Lore of the Clans, which would have let them put some space to the widgets in the Tribebooks, but that's not going to happen at this point (at least not officially, maybe some STV project will manage it). But the percentages I posted above apply to the old stuff, I feel, fairly adequately.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    If W20 tried to update every Gift, Rite, Fetish, Talen, Totem, and so on? We're talking easily 200 pages of material.
                    Well, they could have skipped on all the new gifts and fetishes, and possibly other new material...

                    V20 probably also didn't have all the combo disciplines, but they clearly made an effort to have a compilation in the state of 2nd Edition's height, with revised explained in side bars. That was as advertised by Atlanta White Wolf. But when W20 was designed, Atlanta White Wolf was gone and OPP had the license to produce a whole game line of 20th anniversary books. So, W20, clearly aimed in another direction as V20 did...

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, and W20 didn't get a Player's Guide, like V20 and M20 and even C20 did. So a lot of Merits and Flaws and probably other traits were never updated.

                      Also, take CB20 with a chunk of salt the size of your head. A lot of Fera Gifts were simplified to the point of doing something entirely different, or just left out entirely. The Ajaba and Mokole had their aspects/auspices all messed up. The Mokole and Bastet had their form statistics messed up. Everything else about the Mokole was hella messed up. So in several respects you're better off using Revised and the Breedbooks, especially for Mokole which had their mechanics majorly bolloxed up in Player's Guide to the Changing Breeds as well. I get the feeling everybody in White Wolf and OPP just hates the Mokole and don't want them to even look playable.

                      As for Changing Ways, just consider it a 5th edition book. And then ignore it entirely. Yuck.
                      Last edited by Erinys; 02-24-2021, 08:12 PM.


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                      My point of view may be different from yours but is equally valid.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Erinys View Post
                        Yeah, and W20 didn't get a Player's Guide, like V20 and M20 and even C20 did. So a lot of Merits and Flaws and probably other traits were never updated.

                        Also, take CB20 with a chunk of salt the size of your head. A lot of Fera Gifts were simplified to the point of doing something entirely different, or just left out entirely. The Ajaba and Mokole had their aspects/auspices all messed up. The Mokole and Bastet had their form statistics messed up. Everything else about the Mokole was hella messed up. So in several respects you're better off using Revised and the Breedbooks, especially for Mokole which had their mechanics majorly bolloxed up in Player's Guide to the Changing Breeds as well. I get the feeling everybody in White Wolf and OPP just hates the Mokole and don't want them to even look playable.

                        As for Changing Ways, just consider it a 5th edition book. And then ignore it entirely. Yuck.

                        Here Be Facts.



                        CB20 suffers from a Developer who ( other than other major personal flaws) was running way too many concurrent projects. Theres some good writing in there from contributors but bringing it together was badly futzed.
                        Last edited by Damian May; 02-25-2021, 05:08 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Damian May View Post
                          CB20 suffers from a Developer who ( other than other major personal flaws) was running way too many concurrent projects. Theres some good writing in there from contributors but bringing it together was badly futzed.
                          I liked the open development approach back then.

                          I think a some user contributed changes were incorporated and made things better. Especially my contribution on how Rage works for Gurahl...

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                          • #14
                            As someone who hadn't read a changing breed book before 20th aniversary, CB20 seemed like a fine book. I had issues with it; some art was questionable, a few gifts stood out as exploitable/broke, the africa situation seemed uncharacteristically optimistic and far too... these guys realise how fucking big africa is, right? Even if we're just talking about the lands with lions and hyenas, it's huge. I don't get how black-lion-dude can really endanger the whole-continent. But that's a complaint for prior editions, really. The book sells me on most changing breeds. Especially the ratkin.


                            Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                            There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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