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  • #31
    Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
    If the fetish does not indicate the activation time the default is a scene?
    In most cases, yes. In other cases it might be permanent, or until the wearer looses consciousness or lays down the fetish or a a single turn. It totally depends on the effect - and practicality. A fetish that, for example, provides some sort of protection should not necessarily be activated each scene, for the rolling of dice and repeated declaration of activating the fetish becomes annoying at some point.
    In some cases, it might be appropriate to make the activation a reflexive thing.
    Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
    Do you need to roll or spend Gnosis everytime you use a Klaive? It is my impression that the material (silver) is what causes the aggravated damage, but the text states: The same could be asked of the damage (not any related power) of the Ironhammers or Jarlhammers.
    My interpretation is: You need to activate the fetish (by a roll or Gnosis expenditure) to make agg damage to any target (as well as to use powers if the klaive has additional). If the Klaive is not activated, it is still silver and will therefore cause agg damage to most fera, but lethal damage to other targets.
    I'd rule also, that:
    - one activation will turn on the agg damage property, as well as an additional power if the klaive has one.
    - the agg damage property will last for the scene


    But that is just my opinion, without re-reading W20 rules.
    Last edited by heinrich; 03-06-2021, 06:32 PM.

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    • #32
      The books are unfortunately vague around this topic.

      My reading is in-line with heinrich's.

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      • #33
        I'm slightly different - fetishes that are simply enchanted weapons are permanent - so Klaives always do their aggravated damage on hit, because their magic is to be extraordinary and it's inherit in their purpose. However, if you had a specific activity or one of the legendary klaives with additional powers you would always have to roll/spend gnosis to invoke those special magical powers.

        I do feel that activation for a scene is also a valid interpretation, It's just not the one we use at our table. The intent was definitely not to have it activated for every hit you need to do.


        What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

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        • #34
          I tend to use the rating and Gnosis of the Fetish to help judge things a bit. Fang Daggers are activated every strike, but they're low rated Fetishes. It makes sense that their relatively potent bonus is limited by having to activate it every hit. If they lasted a scene, or where permanent, they should easily be 4 or 5 dot Fetishes.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
            I tend to use the rating and Gnosis of the Fetish to help judge things a bit. Fang Daggers are activated every strike, but they're low rated Fetishes. It makes sense that their relatively potent bonus is limited by having to activate it every hit. If they lasted a scene, or where permanent, they should easily be 4 or 5 dot Fetishes.
            True.
            I also would rule like that, but since then they can't be used in combination to Rage expenditure, they are a relatively weak fetish.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              I tend to use the rating and Gnosis of the Fetish to help judge things a bit. Fang Daggers are activated every strike, but they're low rated Fetishes. It makes sense that their relatively potent bonus is limited by having to activate it every hit. If they lasted a scene, or where permanent, they should easily be 4 or 5 dot Fetishes.
              Well the Fang Dagger always does aggravated damage,as that's what it's base enchantment does. But you need to activate its actual power every time you need to use it? It always seeemed that the design intent for them was to be used in such a way that they are not conductive to being comboed with rage use in that turn.


              What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

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              • #37
                Asmodai, Heavy Arms heinrich

                Another question:

                Tribal fetishes are jealousy guarded, but some of them are quite generic in design and spirit inhabiting, the Fianna battle torc is an example: physically is a torc, which many cultures use, and the spirit is a Rage spirit, which many tribes would access.

                Does it make sense for a Get of Fenris or Silver Fangs member to have a Battle Torc?


                Edit: Found out the default image for Get of Fenris, and lo and behold, it has a torc!
                Last edited by lbeaumanior; 03-18-2021, 12:21 AM.

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                • #38
                  It is a problem, not only for fetishes but any supernatural ability, like Gifts, Rites, Talens.

                  There is something like parallel development:
                  Two garou in very different parts of the world could at some point in history have had the need for a specific ability and therefore made efforts to gain that ability, by creating a Fetish, make a pact involving chiminage and ritualistic actions that turns into a Rite or get bestowed that power by a spirit, essentially creating a Gift or binding the spirit, leading to the creation of a Talen.

                  So, if the mechanic of a Fetish is generic (like an extra dice for soaking damage) then it's function should be available. The fetishes should be objects appropriate for the cultural background the garou tribe's kinfolks stems from - be it torcs, amulets, periapts or what ever...


                  Imo WoD Sourcebooks and rules are, depending on who wrote and edited them, inconsistent to whether 'only what's in the books is in the game world' or 'what is in the books are examples' approaches are to be applied.


                  With chapters detailing Fetish creation in detail, mentioning rules about learning Gifts from other fera, indicating that new Rites and Talens can be created I think that it is only natural that almost anything could be available to anyone. There are some things I think are to specialised or to tied to the mythology of a group to work for another, but everything that has a generic effect, imo, should be open to anyone - meaning each group should have a Fetish with the same mechanic, but a description fitting the ethnicity of the group/tribe in question.


                  ----

                  In my LARP game, we do not allow for player created Gifts or Rites, although we deemed some game aspects players came up with worthy to be minor rites, applying a small game mechanic.
                  We do not allow for creation of Talens, for introducing new ones could alter the game tremendously, since they can be mass produced and each character with the Rite of Binding who learns how to create the Talen can create it.
                  We allow for pacts with spirits for unique powers, although usually with steep sacrifices (this could be seen as a new Gift, but since you have to sacrifice more than XP it is rarely anyone trying to copy such a pact).
                  We do however allow for fetishes to be created, with all the obstacles that it entails, quite freely. We have to negotiate the powers, Gnosis rating, fetish level and possibly additional costs, but if you want to get an specific power and it does work well in LARP, then a fetish is the way to do it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                    It is a problem, not only for fetishes but any supernatural ability, like Gifts, Rites, Talens.

                    There is something like parallel development:
                    Two garou in very different parts of the world could at some point in history have had the need for a specific ability and therefore made efforts to gain that ability, by creating a Fetish, make a pact involving chiminage and ritualistic actions that turns into a Rite or get bestowed that power by a spirit, essentially creating a Gift or binding the spirit, leading to the creation of a Talen.

                    So, if the mechanic of a Fetish is generic (like an extra dice for soaking damage) then it's function should be available. The fetishes should be objects appropriate for the cultural background the garou tribe's kinfolks stems from - be it torcs, amulets, periapts or what ever...


                    Imo WoD Sourcebooks and rules are, depending on who wrote and edited them, inconsistent to whether 'only what's in the books is in the game world' or 'what is in the books are examples' approaches are to be applied.


                    With chapters detailing Fetish creation in detail, mentioning rules about learning Gifts from other fera, indicating that new Rites and Talens can be created I think that it is only natural that almost anything could be available to anyone. There are some things I think are to specialised or to tied to the mythology of a group to work for another, but everything that has a generic effect, imo, should be open to anyone - meaning each group should have a Fetish with the same mechanic, but a description fitting the ethnicity of the group/tribe in question.


                    Agreed, it makes little sense for someone to copy the "Favour of Fenris" or the "Storm Gauntllet" fetishes, but generic ones should be able to be copied.
                    Last edited by lbeaumanior; 03-17-2021, 10:49 PM.

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                    • #40
                      I think part of the issue is that the books assume that the Garou don't have a lot of time left. As the Wyrm has grown stronger, and the Final Battle looms over the Garou's future, things like Fetish crafting becomes more rare in general. Fetish crafting, and experimenting with new Fetish designs/one inspired by other Tribes, is not in theory hard. But it is time and resource intensive enough that making a Fetish has grown into being a fairly big deal.

                      As such, I tend to view Tribal Fetishes that don't seem like they have a reason to be exclusive indicates that the Tribe has a bunch of them, while the rest of the Tribes don't. The other Tribes could copy, but there's a question of if they see value in a copy or not.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                        I think part of the issue is that the books assume that the Garou don't have a lot of time left.
                        But this, too, is a very inconsistent thing.
                        For one thing, the looming apocalypse is around till 1st edition. Sure, revised came up with "every cub to fight in the Apocalypse is already born", but that was with ToJ in mind - real world economics revived the doomed game world turned it cWoD then WoD proper again... So, what will destroy the world? Nobody buying the books, I guess.

                        And, sure, there is 'Guardians of the Caerns', stating that every sept has only half the garou it would need, when all offices and tasks of the sept were distributed. But still, there isn't one fight after another after another. There is supposed to be Downtime somewhere in the garou's live and the werewolf game as a whole. And while being the backup caern guardian pack, one has time to flirt with the kinfolk or come prepare Fatish raw material. I mean, if you go by CoG tradition, you have the raw material in all the elements for extended periods of time. You can do other things in the meantime...

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                        • #42
                          Fetishes have an important heritage and cultural role among Garou, so it isn't just a functional issue. Depending on the fetish, you could argue it represents something particularly important to that tribe so it often gets made. While at another tribe, this other type of fetish is prominent. They wouldn't ignore one for the other simply because it's their heritage. And of course there is the common statement that certain fetishes can only be made if you know certain "secrets", and thus creating them is actually limited to those craftsmen who have been taught the secret to make them.

                          I don't think that all fetishes listed in a tribebook should be considered proprietary to that tribe alone, but it's probably at least far more prominent. But I think the intent at least was that those fetishes belonged to that tribe, while the fetishes listed in the corebooks and players guides represented more universal fetishes available among all the tribes. However, as the game progressed with each edition, we did see certain changes. Some fetishes originally listed in the tribebooks later showed in a later corebook or players guide, so obviously some fetishes were liked so much by the designers they were moved into the more universal category. STs should feel OK to do the same.

                          I do think STs should be making some decisions in regards to access of certain fetishes. These are the kind of general groups I use.
                          • Universal fetishes theoretically available to all Garou.
                          • Rare fetishes that aren't limited to any tribe, but the secret of making them is limited to a small number of fetish makers. (any fetish you want to be rare for your chronicle. I personally would put a Baneskin in this category.)
                          • Reputational fetishes only available amongst the elite of the Garou. (klaives would be here)
                          • Significant fetishes that are powerful and rare, and typically only used by leaders of a sept or some other rare group (leaders among a tribe or region, camps, etc.) for the ostensible benefit for that group. (law skulls, grand klaives)
                          • Fetishes that are part of a tribe's heritage whose secrets of making should only be known to them.
                          I think its fine to decide that a certain fetish found in one of the tribebooks is so good or interesting, that the ST wants it to be made available to all Garou theoretically. But some amount of fetishes should be exclusive to a single tribe, or even a single camp.

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                          • #43
                            Then there might be fetish artefacts with ratings above 5, that can't be reproduced. 1st Edition Player's Guide had them, iirc. And some fetishes that are mentioned in fluff but have no game stats.

                            With Klaives (and some other fetishes) I see that some traditions involve inheriting them. Meaning, you aren't part of the elite of the garou in the wider region, yet, since you passed your Rite of Passage just yesterday. But, you passed and therefore you get the klaive that was kept in a showcase in the family mansion since your uncle died four years ago - because you are the only true born in a extended family of 50+ people. And since it is tradition only one of these 50+ people or their future offspring qualify as bearers for the Klaive.
                            This is kind of contradicted by the possibility to challenge for the possession of a fetish, but than again, a challenge must have some merit and here we come into a whole lot of undefined stuff regarding what is an appropriate challenge and what is not.

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