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W20 Which Tribes play well with Uktena and Wendigo?

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  • W20 Which Tribes play well with Uktena and Wendigo?

    Greetings,

    Most of Wendigo attitudes regarding other tribes read like a litany of "Why we would never work with those people, and actually we should just kill them". And that makes multi tribe packs... interesting. Wendigo and Uktena work well together, and with Croatan covered Social, Physical and Mental roles. Since the Croatan demise, which tribes would work well in pack with Wendigo and Uktena? Children of Gaia? Red Talons?

    Between historical hatred, attitudes towards most humans and technology, only Gaians and Talons seemed (to me) like someone a pack of Uktena/Wendigo would accept.

    Any lore info regarding this?

    Thanks,

  • #2
    The Uktena have an easier default time getting along with others because they're more multicultural by default. It can be good (in a not great way) to have an Uktena in a pack with a Wendigo to act as a tempering factor.

    The Gnawers and Striders are also easy to add to the "easy to work with" Tribes simply because they tend to shoulder a lot less of the burden of invading the Americas, genocide of Uktena and Wendigo kin, and so on. The Black Furies as a group that can work well if the focus on protecting minorities keeps the pack together.

    The Stargazers would be higher up in consideration if the game stopped treating the Tribe with access to more humans to breed with than any other Tribe as the smallest of them and more wide spread. But toss one in for reasons and their isn't really that big of an issue getting them to mesh with the Uktena and Wendigo.

    For the rest of the Tribes, it mostly comes down to individuals over stereotypes.

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    • #3
      It all depends on local factors like pack and caern totems, local politics, and individual personalities. General tribal attitudes may make certain combinations harder, but you can always come up with scenarios where individual Wendigo team up with members of any tribe. You can easily come up with tiers laying out which ones are of harder justification.

      Easier: Children of Gaia, Red Talons, Silent Striders, Stargazers - the tribes with the greatest sympathy with the Wendigo, and the least likely to be seen as threats
      Moderate: Black Furies, Bone Gnawers, Glass Walkers - basically anyone that does not fit either of the other two categories
      Harder: Silver Fangs, Get of Fenris, Shadow Lords, Fianna - the leaders of the European invaders and their closest allies

      This primarily applies to homids. I think the lupus of many of the tribes, even ones like Fianna, would be easier to ally with fellow lupus among the Wendigo and perhaps even their homid members.

      Things like what is the pack quest and what is the pack totem, can create scenarios where unusual tribal membership can happen. Of course, these would be unusual, and you might just want to be talking about what would be the typical.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the answers!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          The Uktena have an easier default time getting along with others because they're more multicultural by default. It can be good (in a not great way) to have an Uktena in a pack with a Wendigo to act as a tempering factor.

          The Gnawers and Striders are also easy to add to the "easy to work with" Tribes simply because they tend to shoulder a lot less of the burden of invading the Americas, genocide of Uktena and Wendigo kin, and so on. The Black Furies as a group that can work well if the focus on protecting minorities keeps the pack together.

          The Stargazers would be higher up in consideration if the game stopped treating the Tribe with access to more humans to breed with than any other Tribe as the smallest of them and more wide spread. But toss one in for reasons and their isn't really that big of an issue getting them to mesh with the Uktena and Wendigo.
          Kind of a tangent here, but pre-Revised supplements painted a picture of multiple tribes existing across Asia - Hengeyokai affirmed the Caerns: PoP standpoint where Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers were as widespread as you might imagine in Asia as well as the rest of the world, and even the CoG had some presence because Unicorn was made roughly the same as Qilin. Then KotE doubled down on whatever it was smoking, drinking, and mainlining in Blood and Silk, and made everything in Asia about the Hakken and Stargazers, regardless of how little that made sense or how some tribes had been very widespread and were presented as being in a region by earlier books.

          (It was unfortunate that Shattered Dreams went in for this and made Chiyou a Hakken before that term would have even remotely made sense, affirming the weird KotE take on Huangdi being Wan Xian even though the Xia Dynasty isn't supposed to be that old).

          Damn, I hate that book. It, and its miserable excuse for a language information sidebar. I might beat that drum way too much, but you really would be better off knowing nothing than internalizing the Romanization "explanations" in the aptly-named B&S.

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          • #6
            Well, yes, but even that critique suffers from a bit too much focus on China and Japan. The Stargazers have all of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran where they should be the dominant and plentiful Tribe rather than the smallest Tribe in the Nation; that's a human population well above most of the geographically oriented Tribes can brag about and plenty of immigrant communities in other areas. And India (though there share that with more Tribes).

            The Gazers are small for really silly reasons, esp. with the huge variety of human schools of mysticism that they could exist on the fringes of that have existed in that part of the world for millennia.

            It's really a lot simpler than all the stuff in the books not lining up: Despite the Gazers prime territory being in the center of the largest populations of humans on Earth, and having two unique wolf populations, the books wanted Tibetan Buddhist monk werewolves, and thus made them a tiny Tribe to match that aesthetic.

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            • #7
              Regarding the original question, the Silent Striders seem to have the best relationship with both tribes. Not perfect, but they're probably one of the ones the Wendigo are least hostile too. (Ironically, the two they've had the most hostility with, the Fianna and the Get of Fenris, are the two they have the most in common with; all three are generally considered "warrior" tribes who have a strong - almost obsessive - connection with their Kinfolk and traditional territory.)
              The Children of Gaia try to get along with everyone, but this will sometimes be in a somewhat patronizing and paternalistic way, which is likely to grate really heavily on more than a few Uktena and Wendigo.
              The Black Furies have a lot of potential commonalities with the Uktena, especially in regards to investigating/protecting Wyld places, recovering sacred artifacts, and cultural preservation. They also have the same sort of stubborn short-temperness about their personal issues that make them likely to butt heads with the Wendigo.

              As for Asia, if you ever look at a globe, you'll notice that South Asia (India, Pakistan, Nepal, Tibet) and Eastern China are about the same size as Europe. So, at least from a logical standpoint, there should be almost as much diversity there. India/South Asia was never fully fleshed out, but the Stargazers, Children of Gaia, Bone Gnawers, Silver Fangs, and Glass Walkers were all established as having an ancient presence there, and the Silent Striders coming later. Likewise East Asia having mention of local Red Talons, Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, as well as later arriving Silent Striders and mixed race Fianna (and Uktena whose arrival date is vague and contradictory). There's also the whole thing of the Fera being more common in those regions than in Europe.

              (My own head-canon is that India is, at least since the 300s BC, has been home to a fairly even spread of Black Furies, Bone Gnawers, Children of Gaia, Glass Walkers/Warders, Red Talons, Shadow Lords, Silent Striders, Silver Fangs, and Stargazers. The northern part of East Asia, from Mongolia, across northern China and Korea, to Japan, is mainly Hakken/Shadow Lords, Stargazers, Red Talons, Silent Striders, Glasswalkers, Bone Gnawers, and small numbers of Uktena and Wendigo, while the southern part is mainly Stargazers, Glasswalkers and Bone Gnawers, with minorities of Children of Gaia, Fianna (the Firehair clan), and Uktena. I'll also mention that I tend to have the Stargazers having a notable presence in Persia/Iran and the Middle East as far back as the Zoroastrian period.)


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                Well, yes, but even that critique suffers from a bit too much focus on China and Japan. The Stargazers have all of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran where they should be the dominant and plentiful Tribe rather than the smallest Tribe in the Nation; that's a human population well above most of the geographically oriented Tribes can brag about and plenty of immigrant communities in other areas. And India (though there share that with more Tribes).

                The Gazers are small for really silly reasons, esp. with the huge variety of human schools of mysticism that they could exist on the fringes of that have existed in that part of the world for millennia.

                It's really a lot simpler than all the stuff in the books not lining up: Despite the Gazers prime territory being in the center of the largest populations of humans on Earth, and having two unique wolf populations, the books wanted Tibetan Buddhist monk werewolves, and thus made them a tiny Tribe to match that aesthetic.
                I only stopped there because of the explosive spleen venting that Blood and Silk induces. Gnawers and Walkers are everywhere, CoGs are likely very close behind, and the Red Talons (somehow more populous than the Stargazers...) are tucked into the extra-wild regions of the world. This stays true worldwide. Then you get to the Silver Fangs that have Houses that stretch over regions of geography so surprising that even the author that introduced them couldn't even seem to handle it by making a sample character with Blood Red Crest heritage... that was for whatever reason, French. Urgh.

                So Silver Fangs are everywhere, too, Silent Striders could be anywhere, Shadow Lords are super-populous and have shown up in the middle east since 1e, which one could stack onto their later developments of having another distinct branch associated with Mongols, who really got around... and at this point, the Stargazers not being populous makes sense, but other tribes not being worldwide or at least having regional presence far beyond Europe doesn't. Some Garou from another setting have clearly taken all of the choice spots and Kin that the Fera didn't claim, but the books present an odious veneer of nonexistence around South Asia and the Middle East, or its two tribe show from East Asia.

                When will you Rage? When presented with wildly inconsistent world-building that makes no sense.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                  When will you Rage? When presented with wildly inconsistent world-building that makes no sense.
                  That's the Classic World of Darkness for you.

                  Forgetting the ATROCIOUS Changing Breeds book, the NWoD has so much more consistency and better writing. Authors have more nuanced views of ethnicities and regions.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    I only stopped there because of the explosive spleen venting that Blood and Silk induces...
                    I am now inspired to create Spleen Venting Fury, Child of Gaia Galliard. "What's wrong with it? I'll tell you what's wrong with it!" In 28 years of being a W:tA fan, this is the first time I have been inspired to make a CoG character. Thank you.

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