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Suicide shadows during catharsis...

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  • Nazfool
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    on the idea, of the Shadow going through a harrowing, I think it could indeed happen.
    I might be misremembering something, but I’m fairly certain Shadow Harrowings are a not a thing. There’s nothing wrong with making it a thing, but as of WtO Second it’s not. I think. Like I said earlier in this thread, my books are MIA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Nazfool View Post
    My books are in temporary storage, so these are mostly my takes that may (or may not) jive with WtO Second.



    There are Shadows like that. They are generally so self-destructive that the wraiths to whom they belong have fallen to Oblivion a long time ago. I.E., not the players. But the players aren’t special snowflakes who possess happy Shadows. Shadows want Oblivion. To get there they have to destroy/humiliate/enlighten their weaker halves; the Psyche. It’s also important to remember the Shadow and Psyche are still the same critter and same “person”. They’re just sort of split up.

    I don’t remember if it’s a rule or a best practice, but when a character enters catharsis and the Shadow takes control, the Shadowguide does not control the catharsis. The player does. It’s her character so let her enjoy playing the other half of it. The Shadowguide can try her hand at playing the Psyche or just take a break. Unless the player is either A) a nihilistic bastard or B) really doesn’t want to be at the table, most folks aren’t going to send their characters into a Destructive Harrowing for giggles.




    If the Shadow is in control and destroys the wraith’s plasmic body, the [wraith] character enters a Destructive Harrowing, just as if it had lost all Corpus levels while in control. Spectres don’t have Harrowings. Instead they get the sweet sweet release that only beloved Oblivion can offer.


    Its a rule, on the player not shadow guide playing the wraith in catarasis.

    its one that in light of this thread makes a LOT of sense.

    it also gives recommendations for how a ST can deal with a Shadowguide, whos a bit TOO enthusiastic.

    giving a bonus to the catharasis rolls.

    on the idea, of the Shadow going through a harrowing, I think it could indeed happen.

    And anyone whos played through batman arkham knight... thats VERY MUCH a harrowing, when you play the joker, through the landscape of his and batmans psyches... and in the end is trapped in a cell never to escape.

    Leave a comment:


  • marin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ramnesis View Post
    I do have problems with saying that all Shadows are patient; that seems like an unwarranted generalization. You can have a lot of fun with a tantrum happy Shadow. However, it isn't unreasonable to think that if a Wraith had self destructive impulses strong enough to just dive into Oblivion he would already be a Spectre.
    Patience is probably the wrong implication. This quote from the Wr20 Shadowguiding excerpt might help put it better:

    Certain Shadow archetypes, such as The Monster, have little use for subtlety and will charge ahead, throwing metaphorical bombs with both hands. But even the crudest, most vicious Shadow looks for weak points rather than simply mindlessly raging. At the same time, not every Shadow needs to be a Professor Moriarty, planning six moves ahead to harvest a single point of Angst a month down the line. The Shadow knows it has limited resources but all the time in the world, and so it can afford to pick its spots for greatest effect.

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  • Ramnesis
    replied
    Originally posted by marin View Post
    This gets discussed in the Wr20 preview for Shadowguiding. According to that, Shadows prefer to take the slow route to Oblivion because a) they can help cause as much collateral damage as possible and b) they generally lack the active impulse to self-destruction - they want to see the Psyche go down, sure, but they can afford to take their time about it. They'll get there in the end.
    I do have problems with saying that all Shadows are patient; that seems like an unwarranted generalization. You can have a lot of fun with a tantrum happy Shadow. However, it isn't unreasonable to think that if a Wraith had self destructive impulses strong enough to just dive into Oblivion he would already be a Spectre.

    Leave a comment:


  • marin
    replied
    This gets discussed in the Wr20 preview for Shadowguiding. According to that, Shadows prefer to take the slow route to Oblivion because a) they can help cause as much collateral damage as possible and b) they generally lack the active impulse to self-destruction - they want to see the Psyche go down, sure, but they can afford to take their time about it. They'll get there in the end.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ajax
    replied
    And the Psyche isn't necessarily gone, nor, under the correct circumstances, would it even be quiescent. After all, Specters have to deal with the whispers of their Psyche's the same way wraiths do with their Shadows.

    So, the Shadow does that. It's going to cause a Harrowing, but I wouldn't be looking at the rules for Specter' being Harrowed, not normal wraiths....

    Leave a comment:


  • Ramnesis
    replied
    Any Spectre could go to the Well of the Void and hurl themselves into Oblivion, and many do. Yet the Labyrinth is still full of Spectres. The simple truth is that while every Spectre and Shadow wants Oblivion, many don't want it just yet. For some there are other things they want to do first. Others want Oblivion for everyone, not just themselves. Still others crave it but can't bring themselves to make the leap... they want someone else to provide the final push.

    In fact, most of the Shadows or Spectres you are likely to see in Wraith are like that, for the simple reason that the rest don't stick around long.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nazfool
    replied
    My books are in temporary storage, so these are mostly my takes that may (or may not) jive with WtO Second.

    Originally posted by Daraexus View Post
    What does stop a shadow during catharsis from just commiting suicide? Looking for a tall building, jumping from the last floor until the wraith's corpus gets to 0 and then let him fall into a Harrowing, effectively weakening his psique?

    It seems like a dirty way to play the Shadow, but I wanted to hear opinions regarding... why this is not the right approach to play a Shadow.
    There are Shadows like that. They are generally so self-destructive that the wraiths to whom they belong have fallen to Oblivion a long time ago. I.E., not the players. But the players aren’t special snowflakes who possess happy Shadows. Shadows want Oblivion. To get there they have to destroy/humiliate/enlighten their weaker halves; the Psyche. It’s also important to remember the Shadow and Psyche are still the same critter and same “person”. They’re just sort of split up.

    I don’t remember if it’s a rule or a best practice, but when a character enters catharsis and the Shadow takes control, the Shadowguide does not control the catharsis. The player does. It’s her character so let her enjoy playing the other half of it. The Shadowguide can try her hand at playing the Psyche or just take a break. Unless the player is either A) a nihilistic bastard or B) really doesn’t want to be at the table, most folks aren’t going to send their characters into a Destructive Harrowing for giggles.


    Originally posted by Daraexus View Post

    That, I considered myself. However, is it official? Is there any reference to what happens if the wraith goes to a harrowing while the shadow is in control?
    If the Shadow is in control and destroys the wraith’s plasmic body, the [wraith] character enters a Destructive Harrowing, just as if it had lost all Corpus levels while in control. Spectres don’t have Harrowings. Instead they get the sweet sweet release that only beloved Oblivion can offer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daraexus
    replied
    Originally posted by Flinty View Post
    If the wraith dies while the shadow is in the drivers seat it may harrow the shadow instead.
    That, I considered myself. However, is it official? Is there any reference to what happens if the wraith goes to a harrowing while the shadow is in control?

    Leave a comment:


  • Flinty
    replied
    If the wraith dies while the shadow is in the drivers seat it may harrow the shadow instead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Caladriu
    replied
    Because it isn't interesting and will probably not lead to player enjoyment.

    Leave a comment:

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