Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Redeemed Spectres and Dark Arcanos

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Redeemed Spectres and Dark Arcanos

    If a Spectre finds redemption will the Wraith it becomes remember all of the Dark Arcanos it once learned?

  • #2
    Id rule it vaguely remembers having known them but loses access to them.


    Comment


    • #3
      I don't see why it should lose access to those Dark Arcanoi that seem usable and useful to wraiths (e.g. Hive-Mind, Larceny, Tempest-Weaving, Tempestos) since Doomslayers do use them all the time. Ferrymen too use them. So I don't see why it should be any different for Redeemed wraiths. Now if we speak about those other DA that seem to require Spectral nature or mindset (e.g. Contaminate, Corruption, Maleficence, Shroud-Rending) it is another issue entirely. I'd indeed rule a Redeemed wraith may vaguely remember them but loses them.

      Comment


      • #4
        wheres it say Doomslayers and Ferrymen use Dark Arcanoi?


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
          wheres it say Doomslayers and Ferrymen use Dark Arcanoi?
          Doomslayers: into the Labyrinth gives a whole part of a chapter to the subject, including p. 50 and pp.55-61. Ends of Empire mentions it in the character creation rules for Ferrymen, p. 100.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well Larceny, would give an old legionaire whos been through one harrowing too many a second chance.


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
              Well Larceny, would give an old legionaire whos been through one harrowing too many a second chance.
              Yes, Larceny would be exceedingly useful for any wraith to avoid or remedy permanent Corpus loss. Much the same way, Hive-Mind may be very useful to perform espionage of Spectral society, work as a less onerous, temporary alternative to Pact of Doom for tapping new Arcana at will, or enact mental manipulation of Spectres (although Intimation, Keening, and Way of the Scholar work just as well on Labyrinth-spawn). Tempest-Weaving may be rather useful to pull gear out of the Tempest or Labyrinth at will, or change their environment to suit your circumstances. Last but not least, Tempestos may be a worthwhile alternative to Argos or Outrage for travel or combat purposes. They are more or less the typical reasons Doomslayers: into the Labyrinth quotes for Doomslayers to learn the first three Dark Arcanoi.
              Last edited by Irioth; 10-04-2017, 05:06 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Something I wondered for a bit?

                What would the Psyche likely say to a spectre when its on the verge of victory?

                I came up with answer for two natures...

                the Nurturer would assure them soothingly it will all be ok, it wont hurt for long, and you'll be better off when its done.

                Saint will inform him "Your violence will soon be ended!" (Same thing they'd do if he was about to be smelted)

                any ideas on what other natures could say as they approach retaking control?

                would it be unreasonable for a shadow to gloat, about all he can do with the angst hes about to gain, if hes afraid say of what the wraith ccould learn with Hive mind? or some spectres have asked it to steer him away from an are or avenue of investigation?
                Last edited by Prince of the Night; 10-05-2017, 05:09 PM.


                Comment


                • #9
                  I've always pictured redeemed Specters automatically transcending since they solved their passions in a different way..


                  See my splat, Angel: The Revelation (With a MUCH better link): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...qUnP1fcl-0/pub

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yaoi Huntress Earth View Post
                    I've always pictured redeemed Specters automatically transcending since they solved their passions in a different way..
                    This is what I lean to as well. After the sheer hell of being a Spectre and improbability of being redeemed, it seems anticlimactic and just cruel to have to start the process over to Transcend as a wraith. If they can overcome being a Spectre, what else do they really need to learn? They already hit bottom and came back.

                    I'm not 100% certain that should be the case, but I strongly lean towards that.

                    I do think there is a good story of a wraith overcoming their Shadow and being restored to normal wraithly society. But I think that's best limited to wraiths who are still wraiths at their base, but at the point they are undergoing prolonged and repeated Carthasis to the extent that they are effectively spectres for a long amount of time. Preventing the Shadow from taking complete control, and strengthening the Psyche provides plenty of drama and conflict.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think it should vary a bit, with the needs of a chronicle.

                      Canon has it that theirs no known former spectres, currently.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                        I think it should vary a bit, with the needs of a chronicle.

                        Canon has it that theirs no known former spectres, currently.
                        There's an entire organization researching how to redeem Spectres though, and they've had a few successes. Those successes tend to relapse, but it's an open possibility that there are some redeemed Spectres under observation in the Martyr Knight vaults.


                        Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          would it be too ludicrous to "Moliate away" a Spectres limbs before going about redeeming him, or will that just feed his angst?


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                            would it be too ludicrous to "Moliate away" a Spectres limbs before going about redeeming him, or will that just feed his angst?
                            Unless it triggers their Dark Passions I don't think it's a problem. The Martyr Knights keep them packed tightly into jars. Moliate doesn't seem too bad compared to that.


                            Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They remember everything. They retain everything. Every Spectre has access to the Hive-Mind, and the redeemed keep that stain on their soul. They hear the whispers of their former brethren, and the whispers of the Neverborn. According to Doomslayers, when a spectre is Redeemed their Corpus rejects the Oblivion tainted portions. Perhaps Larceny can repair the damage, but it is made very clear that Spectres to far gone do not survive the process. A Nephwrack is to far gone. Their entire corpus rejects itself into Oblivion, thought the book says that many Pardoners think the sudden influx of Pathos makes Transcendence the more likely outcome. It also says that Oblivion marks the wraith Corpus in recognizable bands of darkness that any Spectre will instantly pick up on.

                              My personal opinion, this is the Underworld of the WoD. You don't get a pass. You come back from the brink and you are that much more susceptible. You may be redeemed, but the Hive-Mind is always whispering in the back of your mind. Any Doomslayer could tell you the dangers of learning even one-dot in that Arcanos. You are tainted, and barring transcendence you will always be that way. You hear their whispers everywhere you go. Your allies will never trust you because of this. You may become the greatest Pardoner that has ever existed, but the seed of taint has taken more firmly in your soul than anyone would ever guess. You may be Redeemed, but you are never alone. Oblivion will always be whispering for you to come home.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X