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  • Corpus description

    Hello.

    It is not clear in the book of the second edition, nor in the 20th edition, so I will ask here. Regarding the Corpus of each apparition, are they "born" in the Shadowlands without any clothing within their Cauls? Or do they also appear with relic clothes?

    Considering that the relics tear (due to combat) or disappear over time (something natural of relics with little infused emotion), the apparitions buy or rummage through clothing in the Shadowlands?

    You're very obtuse.

  • #2
    I'm not going to be able to provide quotes, as I'm not sure where I read this, but Wraiths are generally born with relic clothing on them, if that's how they view themselves. I haven't finished Wraith20, but the history section does point out that victims of the Holocaust arrived naked, which was unusual.

    Relics only fade over time if they're not regularly infused with Pathos, and it seems to me that a Wraith comfortable in their Reaped outfit could keep it indefinitely.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Callishka View Post
      I'm not going to be able to provide quotes, as I'm not sure where I read this, but Wraiths are generally born with relic clothing on them, if that's how they view themselves. I haven't finished Wraith20, but the history section does point out that victims of the Holocaust arrived naked, which was unusual.

      Relics only fade over time if they're not regularly infused with Pathos, and it seems to me that a Wraith comfortable in their Reaped outfit could keep it indefinitely.
      Right. So an wraith that has just come out of a hard fight against various Spectres, with all the torn clothes (and Corpus), can you invest Pathos to heal your Corpus and also your clothes?

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      • #4
        I'm not sure that there's anything as specific as that detailed in the books. As an ST, I would say that that is fine. I might make a distinction that the first clothing you appear in the Underworld with immediately after dying is a part of your identity, and thus can be repaired just as your corpus is (unless fully destroyed, perhaps?), but if you replace your original clothing with some new outfit, that one needs a Masquer to fix. I think at this level of detail, you can just make up what seems reasonable to you.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by fspardoner View Post

          Right. So an wraith that has just come out of a hard fight against various Spectres, with all the torn clothes (and Corpus), can you invest Pathos to heal your Corpus and also your clothes?
          What's important to keep in mind is that, to a limited extent, the "clothing" a wraith is "wearing" *IS* the wraith's corpus; that is, part of their ephemeral existence is (at least partially) conceptual. That's why certain powers like Moliate work the way they do. Now, of course there are relic clothes, etc., to be had/found, but the "clothing" a wraith is "re-born" with is very often simply a manifestation of their spiritual selves. (This is why, per the further up example, a number of holocaust wraiths were "born" nude -- the months/years in concentration camps had warped their sense of self, leaving them as exposed spiritually as they were physically in life. Note, however, that again their "nudity" is a form-and-function expression of their ephemeral rebirth, just as the "clothing" they are reborn with. It's also why some wraiths "wear" the clothes they died in but others "wear" garments that they were most attached to/conceptualized themselves as "always wearing" in life. It varies from character to character, wraith to wraith...)

          Despite the superficial similarities of the Low Umbral worlds reflecting the physical world, at least half of what goes on down there -- just like in many parts of the Middle Umbra and especially the High Umbra -- is symbolic/conceptual: it may most often be backed by essence (Pathos, or Sekhem and Ba for Mummies in their temporary wraith forms), but the minor superficial qualities (incidental clothing, etc.) are just that -- minor. It has little impact in any game mechanic sense, and is more mutable than in the physical world by their very nature.


          I have been around here for waaaayyyy too fucking long...

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          • #6
            What Just John said.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Callishka View Post
              I haven't finished Wraith20, but the history section does point out that victims of the Holocaust arrived naked, which was unusual.
              In this particular case, I was under the impression that it was because of how they died: stripped then gassed. Which fits with what I'd always gathered was the default assumption for Wraith: you're "wearing" (i.e. it's nominally a clothing-like part of your Corpus) what you were wearing when you died.

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              • #8
                That's one interpretation. Another interpretation is that they arrived naked because that is how they came to view themselves after weeks of being deprived of any dignity, as well as dying naked.

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                • #9
                  The question has been clarified for me. Thank you all for your attention and patience with this novice player.

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                  • #10
                    See Wraith, 2nd ed., p.132, description of Corpus: "a wraith's clothes are also part of his Corpus - he awakens as a wraith wearing whatever he would subconsciuoly deems appropriate. Many wraiths will find their wardrobe changing to suit the situation without conscious effort or thought on their part"...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tazmaniacs View Post
                      See Wraith, 2nd ed., p.132, description of Corpus: "a wraith's clothes are also part of his Corpus - he awakens as a wraith wearing whatever he would subconsciuoly deems appropriate. Many wraiths will find their wardrobe changing to suit the situation without conscious effort or thought on their part"...
                      So can a wraith change your Corpus / clothes as often as the need arises?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fspardoner View Post

                        So can a wraith change your Corpus / clothes as often as the need arises?
                        Well the key word is subconscious. I don't think this is something Wraiths can deliberately do unless they have a special Merit or Moliate. It's more like a stream of consciousness or dream sequence in a movie, it just happens. They also don't necessarily get what they need so much as what they associate with that kind of situation. A young man who only wore a suit once in his life might default to formal wear that doesn't fit well. Or he might manifest a perfectly tailored tuxedo because of years of watching Bond movies.


                        Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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