Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Vampire/Wraith Crossover question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Vampire/Wraith Crossover question

    Hello all,

    So I'm working on this scenario where, to make it short, a vampire is being hassled through pandemonium by a gang of Haunters who have been hired/forced to harass him by some local Giovanni. He hires the players to help him with this issue.

    As I'm far to be an expert in Wraith, I would like to ask your advice on how could a pack of vampires get rid of some Haunters? What would be the best/funniest/most efficient way? Any idea is welcome, I'm kind of stuck here.

    ‚ÄčThank you!

    Edit: Oh yes, forgot to say that they do not have access to any kind of necromancy themselves, they don't even really know that wraiths exist.
    Last edited by Sabbat.be; 04-12-2018, 06:11 PM.

  • #2
    Depending on the age of the vampires, they may try to use weapons that are old enough to be Relics(?) that could damage a Wraith

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Illithid View Post
      Depending on the age of the vampires, they may try to use weapons that are old enough to be Relics(?) that could damage a Wraith
      ? But Relics are the ghosts of objects destroyed...


      Well if you don't want to find a Necromancer to help you could find a Blood Sorcerer like a Koldun or Tremere. Or use Psychometry to help investigate the ghosts mortal clues, and use the Haunter's Fetters against them (basically ties to their mortal life which you can threaten them with or destroy to banish them). Or you could even find a mortal psychic to negotiate with other ghosts to beat up these haunters. Or sell your soul to demons to have the Demons go and eat the ghosts.


      It is a time for great deeds!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        Or sell your soul to demons to have the Demons go and eat the ghosts.
        As much as I like that idea, that's not possible in this case

        But regarding these Fetters, you say that if they are destroyed, the wraiths are banished? Can you give me some details on that one please? I have read Wraith years ago, I vaguely remember these Fetters, it sounds like a great solution.

        Thanks!

        Comment


        • #5
          Well Wraiths are given identity and a bulwark from dissolution by two things, their Passions, which give them meaning and principles, and their Fetters which tie their spirits to the world of the living. Passions are concepts and principles they hold so they are internal facets of the Wraiths. But Fetters are the things which represent what the Wraiths care about most which can tie them to the World. They can be but are not limited to, the Wraith's remains, important family, pets, objects of emotional significance like a Wedding Ring or Badge, or something representing their life's work like a statue dedicated their career as a cop, or a youth center they founded. If these Haunters are still active in the world of the Quick (the living world), they then would likely have fetters, as those without fetters are no longer tied to the lands of the living and only potent magics can manifest them there, and usually for limited time.

          Giovanni often use investigation and or magic to determine a Wraith's Fetters and locate them. These Fetters will have a potent sympathetic connection to the Wraiths which allows magics, especially necromancy to manipulate them far easier, not to mention the psychological advantage of threatening a Wraith's literal lifeline to the world of the living. Some wraiths can use their Arcanoi to see the lifeweb which connects wraiths to fetters. Something like a body, or wedding Ring isn't guaranteed to be a Fetter either, they just often are. And Giovanni love collecting fetters because it amounts to both a tool of control of souls, as well as a trophy that other Giovanni attribute great esteem to the collection and displays of.

          So if your Vampires can talk to someone with Occult, or personal experience with ghosts they can deduce these fetter stratagems, they then can use investigation and auspex to maybe find the fetters and either renegotiate with the Haunters, or if the Haunters are no longer in control of themselves or the Giovanni has the fetters (most likely) they could try to negotiate or blackmail other local ghosts into helping. Or try to find someone with contacts with the Samedi, who are often mercenary with their dealings with the restless dead. If they don't have connections they could also deduce that if they go to a city like New Orleans or Miami they are likely to be able to find Samedi, or some local Houngans (voodoo priests both human and vampire) that may be of assistance.


          Other colorful solution is to call ghost busters, literally they may be able to find exorcists or scientists that have experience with the Dead and have Rituals or Technology (enlightened science) that can work on ghosts.

          Or if you are really desperate the Tremere could help. Thaumaturgy isn't designed full on effect ghosts, but it can do things like ward against them, harm them, and even summon them. Its just not as easy as necromancy. Or if you don't want the Tremere or Samedi, the Setites could also help. Their clan magic of Akhu is a form of Thaumaturgy that specializes in ghosts much more then Thaumaturgy but less then necromancy. They also are very open to making deals, and if you are clever they won't even take your soul or mind, they are open to helping for favors, information or well backstabbing someone for them.

          Options Abound!

          Feel free to ask more questions!


          It is a time for great deeds!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Options Abound!
            Well thanks to you now they do indeed! I certainly have more questions, but I need to think about all this first as your answer is quite complete and gives me lot to think about

            One thing is that the players will indeed get in touch with a Samedi, who is absolutely not related to the ghost part of the plot. I was thinking that he might help them but Samedis are not REALLY necromancers, are they? I mean they are officially not in really good terms with the Giovannis, have no real contacts with the Harbringers of Skulls, so Necromancy is probably not common amongst the bloodline... I don't recall of a specific "branch" of the discipline for them... I need to recheck the doc I have on them I guess

            Thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Ahh now that is the thing. You see in older editions of Vampire Cappadocians didn't have necromancy they had Mortus a corpse themed discipline, Nagaraja didn't have necromancy they had Nihilistics a Soul eating discipline, and Samedi had Thanatosis a Corpse themed discipline. In revised they decided, almost universally regarded as a good idea, to replace Mortus and Nihilistics with Necromancy and just make their old powers a unique path of Necromancy, but Justin Achilis wanted to keep one of these death themed bloodlines without necromancy and felt they would keep Thanatosis as discipline. Many people, myself included, however felt it would serve the bloodline's themes and game mechanics better if Thanatosis was replaced with Necromancy, and turning an umber of the poorly balanced Thanatosis powers into rituals and a path.

              Now arguably the best book on Blood Sorcery a book called Blood Sacrifices a Thaumaturgy Companion explained the Samedi, as well as other Afro Caribbean bloodlines like the Serpents of Light (Setites who denied Set's role as messiahgod, embraced Afro Caribbean faiths and joined the Sabbat), upheld a tradition of learning the Twin bloodmagics of Wanga. Before in older editions they explained Necromancy is often themed after paradigms, and Giovanni for instance are influenced by Greek, Roman, and Christian Myths, and Nagaraja use Indian Mythology. They called Samedi necromancy Voudoun Necromancy. They explained though in revised Wanga is what the Vampires of the Caribbean and South America call their form of Thaumaturgy, as well as Necromancy. System wise a vampire learns it as two separate disciplines, Wanga and Wanga necromancy. But it is a cultural staple of the Vampires of the Area and like with Tzimisce and their own form of blood sorcery, called Koldunic Sorcery or the Kraina, Wanga wasn't something that was an in clan Discipline for Kindred. They just learned it and taught it to any who honestly held similar faith, and that is the big difference between it and Thaumaturgy or Necromancy you have to have faith in the spirits. Basically Wanga is based off of the Belief of the Loa of the Voudoun Religion and the Orisha of Santeria as well as Candomble and other similar faiths. The vampires unlike a lot of humans are more prone to mix these similar religions into a patois.

              So a lot of people go with the houserule that the Samedi have Necromancy (Wanga paradigm) as an in clan discipline as they are implied to be a bloodline of the Cappadocians, specifically descended from the Mla Watu who were Cappadocians who fled to Africa to hide from both Cappadocius himself and later the Giovanni. Presumably at some point some went to Haiti during the slave trade and evolved into the Samedi after a Patron God of the area.

              But you don't even have to go with the House Rule of them knowing Necromancy, you can just use the default of Thanatosis, be careful though it is a wonky discipline, but with the assumption that they have access to plenty of clanmates and peers who will teach them Wanga (Thaumaturgy) or Wanga (Necromancy). Also Wangateurs (their name for sorcerers of Wanga) are often known to be houngan priests by mortals (who may think they are just mortal houngans, or mortals possessed/ridden by spirits, or flat out know they are vampires), and they have a symbiotic relationship with their flock. So they are obligated to aid them in religious matters, either with wayward spirits or guidance.


              Yeah its a lot to chew on. That is why a lot of folks just wish they just gave the Samedi Necromancy rather then call them a clan with a lot of necromancers. But regardless of whether Samedi are necromancers or not the books seem to indicate a lot of them are pragmatic, and work as freelancers or mercenaries, and often tie themselves to Voodoo like faiths as a way around their obvious masquerade breaching nature.


              It is a time for great deeds!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                Now arguably the best book on Blood Sorcery a book called Blood Sacrifices a Thaumaturgy Companion explained the Samedi, as well as other Afro Caribbean bloodlines like the Serpents of Light (Setites who denied Set's role as messiahgod, embraced Afro Caribbean faiths and joined the Sabbat), upheld a tradition of learning the Twin bloodmagics of Wanga.
                Oh my, I have never read that one, for a minute I thought you were talking about "Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy" and just realised there are books I have never heard about! Thanks man, I will check it out, the Samedi/Fetters/houngans lead is the way I will take I think. It will give my pack of Sabbat psychopaths something exotic to learn

                Thanks, you have been a great help!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Truly glad to help enjoy!

                  Oh and that happened to may long ago too. When I was first researching what books to get for Blood Magic I confused the two and didn't realize they were different. Blood Sorcery is most useful for being where Koldunic Sorcery was given rules in, and it took forever before they were republished in Dark Age Revised, and then in V20 and then in DaV20 where they introduced Kraina as an the Ancient system for Koldunism.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can a risen still learn obfuscate if the ST has the VTM book anyway?


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, you say pack, which suggests Sabbat (as does your forum name). The answer is pretty simple: go to the city's bishop and request help from the Harbingers of Skulls. They'll likely be more than happy, especially if screwing the Giovanni is a thing. The pack can totally lie about that part if they need to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Inertial Frame View Post
                        So, you say pack, which suggests Sabbat (as does your forum name). The answer is pretty simple: go to the city's bishop and request help from the Harbingers of Skulls. They'll likely be more than happy, especially if screwing the Giovanni is a thing. The pack can totally lie about that part if they need to.
                        That would be indeed an easy way, but 1) the city is Camarilla (they plan to take it over), and 2) the year in our chronicle is currently 1900, so no harbringers in the Sabbat yet

                        But following above advices, I have decided that the start of their investigations on the wraiths would lead them to the Samedi guy hanging in the local cemetery, thinking he is the one responsible, to find out he is not, but that he can help them against the Giovanni with his (limited) skills in necromancy (I gave him 2 levels in it).

                        It will be the first Samedi they will ever meet, and it will be possible for them to recruit him in the Sabbat if they want to (and that would be a very good idea!).

                        With the Samedi's help and advice, they should be able to solve the Giovanni issue. If they are stupid enough to attack or kill the Samedi, they will be in deep shit

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X