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  • Risen question

    Is it possible for a wraith to become a risen in a body that was not their's?

    Example: Billy learns the required arcanoi, finds a suitable conduit, makes the necessary pact with his shadow, but takes on Jeff's corpse.

  • #2
    Off of memory, I want to say no. The process and drive behind becoming a Risen is extremely personal and people have a strong tie to their former body because... well it's their body.


    Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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    • #3
      Huh. That would make sense. Although I feel like I read somewhere in some supplement that it was possible for it to happen

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      • #4
        You don't need to do that. No matter the condition of the body you it can be used to become risen. If I remember it says the body regenerates back to the TOD condition during the process of becoming risen. I will get my book out later and take a look though.

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        • #5
          You are right that it regenerates, but there is a limit that is spelled out in the book. For instance, I don't believe that a cremated body can be used

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          • #6
            In W20 they address shortcuts to becoming Risen which get rid of some limitations, like learning from pro's and things like artifacts. The Post 6th Maelstrom Risen, some do get tossed in other bodies so I hope they at least address it.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #7
              Also, in KotE, where the KJ are effectively a type of Risen, you can swap bodies if you're of a certain type. It's pretty much a mixed blessing, as you can assume new identities, but every time you experience the Little Death, you potentially get kicked out of your body.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                In W20 they address shortcuts to becoming Risen which get rid of some limitations, like learning from pro's and things like artifacts. The Post 6th Maelstrom Risen, some do get tossed in other bodies so I hope they at least address it.
                Well that's more of a special situation with the Sixth Great Maelstrom, the Maelstrom throwing scores of wraiths into the Skinlands and turning the Shroud into the near impassable Stormwall rather than a normal thing.

                Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
                Also, in KotE, where the KJ are effectively a type of Risen, you can swap bodies if you're of a certain type. It's pretty much a mixed blessing, as you can assume new identities, but every time you experience the Little Death, you potentially get kicked out of your body.
                The Kuei-jin are quite different from the Risen. Yes, there are similarities but most are cosmetic. What they have is not something the Risen have. In fact, the Kuei-jin can rise from cremated bodies while Risen can't. They need their body to be intact. But while Kuei-jin can only arise within the first two to three months, Risen can rise much later, especially with modern embalming techniques preserving their bodies.

                However, you are correct about the Yulan-jin, an uncommon subspecies of Kuei-jin who's souls are untethered from their bodies. Further there is the KJ Flaw, Different Body, which is just that. You died, were dragged into the Thousand Hells and escaped but ended up returning to the wrong body.

                But that is the Kuei-jin, not the Risen.

                Part of the Risen process requires the wraith going to their gravesite and possessing it which does require Puppetry. Kuei-jin on the other hand is in frantic, desperate state following their escape from the Thousand Hells and aren't really in a cognitive state. Most when they rise are in a feral, mindless state, their raging, frantic P'o in command to further emphasis that point. So it's not out of the question for a Kuei-jin to crawl into the wrong body in that state.


                Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't see how that changes anything, it would be nice if it would be addressed in character creation, hence why I mentioned the shortcut section.

                  And whoah Wan Kuei can rise from cremation?!


                  It is a time for great deeds!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yeah, the Kindred of the East will rise regardless of the condition of their corpse while the Risen require a fairly intact corpse, especially their heart and brain. Without that, they can't become a Risen.

                    As for Risen emerging in a different corpse, at the moment there are no rules for that. At least in Wr20. I can't remember if the Risen book brings it up or not but I doubt it. As I've been kind of pointing out, becoming a Risen is a conscious choice, requiring one to go to their corpse and possess it. I can't really any shortcuts to that part of it.

                    While again, the wraiths hurling into corpses during the 6GM are a unique situation and not something readily repeatable and if one was going to run game around such wraiths, they would just create the Risen from the get go rather than going through the process with a wraith.


                    Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thing was it wasn’t just on one day only ghosts were tossed into bodies. The 6th gm was an indefinite thing, and thus the dead were rising wildly nilly.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                        Thing was it wasn’t just on one day only ghosts were tossed into bodies. The 6th gm was an indefinite thing, and thus the dead were rising wildly nilly.
                        Actually that depends on the gamebook you're holding because the different writers on the other lines had their own ideas on what the 6GM did and it's effects. In Orpheus, the successor to WtO, the 6GM turns the Shroud into the Stormwall that is extremely difficult to pass. Hence why in Orpheus, ghosts older than five or so years that Orpheus starts in post-6GM, are extremely rare. Because wraiths are being created in but never cross the Shroud because they can't and by the same token, older wraiths weren't able to pass through the Stormwall to the Skinlands. It takes a great deal of effort from the specters to finally start tunneling through it.

                        Personally when it comes the 6GM, I go with the Orpheus answer since it is the closest thing to a direct continuation on WtO prior to Wr20. And because well Orpheus has been folded into Wr20, further strengthening their ties.


                        Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i would like to know why in Wr20 the Risen have to travel to the Labyrinth to make a deal with there Shadow. if i remember correctly all wraiths can speak with there Shadows, Hell many can't get them to shut up. so why make you go? if its just to make it more involved to become one, and they seemed to have lost one Discipline.

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                          • #14
                            In the Risen supplement, an alternate body can be taken. I think it's a flaw. I know it was allowed in the past. Wr20 seems to insist heavily in the opposite direction...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeadMan View Post
                              i would like to know why in Wr20 the Risen have to travel to the Labyrinth to make a deal with there Shadow. if i remember correctly all wraiths can speak with there Shadows, Hell many can't get them to shut up. so why make you go? if its just to make it more involved to become one, and they seemed to have lost one Discipline.
                              My thoughts on this were a) it was done to increase the action/drama, and b) it's more akin to the Kuei-Jin origin.

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