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  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    started a topic Wraith 5?

    Wraith 5?

    What would you want out of a hypothetical Wraith 5th Edition, circa 2024?

  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by Damian May View Post


    Um, how? V5 doesn't use pools so what did you do for Pathos/Angst etc. And based on our games of V5 how were you not falling into a Harrowing every ten rolls or so.
    How do you mean V5 doesn’t use pools?

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  • Damian May
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeoris View Post
    I played Wraith using the rules from V5. Translation is actually pretty seamless and it worked really well. Highly recommended.

    Um, how? V5 doesn't use pools so what did you do for Pathos/Angst etc. And based on our games of V5 how were you not falling into a Harrowing every ten rolls or so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeoris
    replied
    I played Wraith using the rules from V5. Translation is actually pretty seamless and it worked really well. Highly recommended.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Are we talking about Wr20 now? Or did Paradox assign someone to do some initial development work on Wr5 that I haven't heard about?

    Leave a comment:


  • Shakanaka
    replied
    Originally posted by Nerhesi
    Delays aside, the worst aspect was the "nerfing" for the sake making it lowest on the totem pole when compared to other lines (literally, the explanation given by the chief editor or whatever was that someone has to be the weakest and it was a conscious decision to make wraiths do) gutted the game in terms of immersion.
    Yep that's why I only use Arcanoi from 2nd Edition.

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  • Nerhesi
    replied
    I would love a wraith 5e - but it absolutely cannot be done by the same leadership that was delegated to do so. Delays aside, the worst aspect was the "nerfing" for the sake making it lowest on the totem pole when compared to other lines (literally, the explanation given by the chief editor or whatever was that someone has to be the weakest and it was a conscious decision to make wraiths do) gutted the game in terms of immersion.

    Pretty much every guild (and by extension Wraith) isnt really scary from a system perspective. You have to dispense with the system to actual match the lore and immersion required of awe inspiring powers (not any more!). In some cases, some arts became worse than the mundane equivalent of picking up a sword, a pen, or hammer... Literal traps.

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  • Damian May
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    Oh, and a slightly more depressing note, with the existence of Afterlife and Paradox's track-record when it comes to WoD5e...

    ...I think we can also take this as solid confirmation that there aren't going to be anymore official Wr20 books coming.

    I really, really recommend Necropolis Venezia ( English Edition) on the Vault, its awsome.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Oh, and a slightly more depressing note, with the existence of Afterlife and Paradox's track-record when it comes to WoD5e...

    ...I think we can also take this as solid confirmation that there aren't going to be anymore official Wr20 books coming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Retroactively. That is, there was nothing said in any book anywhere about the Orpheus Group prior to the publication of Orpheus in 2003; but yes, there were events described in Orpheus' backstory that predated the Maelstrom.

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  • AkatsukiLeader13
    replied
    Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
    Since when was Orpheus pre-6M? It has a WHOLE bunch of elementals that clash with WTO from what little I remember when I heard somethings about it. Especially with Spectres apparently able to make "hives" beyond the shroud somehow (without Embody or even having any Fetters- Spectres can't remain outside the Tempest or the Underworld for long with a Fetter or they die), weird things with Oblivion somehow being personified as "Grand Mother", and in general Stygia or the Jade Kingdom (the major Dark Kingdoms before 6M) weren't even mentioned at all whatsoever. I've always seen Orpheus as something that was post-6M or in its own hazy continuum.
    Game mechanics aside, that stuff is the metaplot of Orpheus which as I said, does require the metaplot of WtO. But the Orpheus Group and the events that led to it's creation happened well before the 6GM. It's why the Orpheus appendix can exist in Wr20, because the Orpheus Group and projectors in general didn't require the 6GM unlike with HtR, DtF and MtR. And if the 6GM didn't happen, the Orpheus Group, their competitors and the Flatliners would still exist because all that stuff was happening in the mid-90s, several years before the 6GM happened.

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  • Shakanaka
    replied
    Since when was Orpheus pre-6M? It has a WHOLE bunch of elementals that clash with WTO from what little I remember when I heard somethings about it. Especially with Spectres apparently able to make "hives" beyond the shroud somehow (without Embody or even having any Fetters- Spectres can't remain outside the Tempest or the Underworld for long with a Fetter or they die), weird things with Oblivion somehow being personified as "Grand Mother", and in general Stygia or the Jade Kingdom (the major Dark Kingdoms before 6M) weren't even mentioned at all whatsoever. I've always seen Orpheus as something that was post-6M or in its own hazy continuum.
    Last edited by Shakanaka; 06-23-2020, 02:35 AM.

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  • AkatsukiLeader13
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    I didn't - and don't - like the way Orpheus handled the Wraith settings. Basically, the former destroyed the latter. I will be disappointed if 5E Wraith is an utter reset of the setting.
    Orpheus didn't kill Wraith. Wraith was killed several years before Orpheus came out in Ends of Empire, which was part of the Revised Edition start as well what caused the new Revised Era lines of Hunter, Demon and Mummy but not Orpheus. While the metaplot events were started by those events, Orpheus and the titular Orpheus Group pre-exist the end of WtO.

    In fact, you could completely remove the Sixth Great Maelstrom (and for that matter the other Great Calamities of 1999) and Orpheus would still exist in-universe.

    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Yeah; I have concerned about that sort of thing, too. On the one hand, bringing in Orpheus-like elements greatly increases the interaction between the living and the dead; so it wouldn't surprise me if the Second Inquisition had a branch wielding Orpheus-tech to hunt ghosts. But it wouldn't be Orpheus (which was destroyed) or its successor; that company's mission statement is pretty much the opposite of the Second Inquisition mindset.
    Indeed. People forget but the Orpheus Group and it's successor, Lazarus Redux, were not the only Projectors in town. There was both NextWorld and Terrel and Squib, the former being a private security firm that had dark side, carrying out things like assassinations, espionage and blackmail. And while the metaplot is vague as to what ultimately happens to NextWorld, like Orpheus and T&S it ceases to exist. Perhaps it was folded into a covert agency like the Second Inquisition.

    But the thing is, it doesn't have to be NextWorld because there already is a government agency that has it's fingers in projecting, the NSA. In the backstory, the NSA was involved in the early days of the OG and Project Flatline, their first big projecting experiment that ended in disaster. And once Orpheus gets attacked, steps in to finish off the company, take/destroy it's records and clean up any loose ends, using Death Merchants (mercs and assassins that can project) to hunt down Orpheus survivors and other dirty deeds. Eventually they created their own projector outfit, Operation: Black Mercury.

    Given the origins and nature of the Second Inquisition, having Black Mercury around and coming into contact with the founders of SI wouldn't be a stretch. Though personally, I'd keep SI and OBM separate as having the SI with access to projectors would make them a much worse threat for most non-Hecata vampires. Both groups have their own areas of operation so let them handle their own things and only work together with their sphere meet. OBM agents encounter some serious vampire activity? Send word to the SI so they can deal with it. SI agents come into contact with ghost activity? Call OBM to handle it. Hecata trafficking in Pigment? Well then that's the time for the SI and OBM to get together to deal with it.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Yeah; I have concerned about that sort of thing, too. On the one hand, bringing in Orpheus-like elements greatly increases the interaction between the living and the dead; so it wouldn't surprise me if the Second Inquisition had a branch wielding Orpheus-tech to hunt ghosts. But it wouldn't be Orpheus (which was destroyed) or its successor; that company's mission statement is pretty much the opposite of the Second Inquisition mindset.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shakanaka
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    Just...as long as they don't go so far the other way that we get into "the Second Inquisition has absorbed Orpheus into its organization and has become their official ghost-hunting arm"
    Now that sounds like a nightmare, lol

    Leave a comment:

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