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  • Wraith and Mummy

    Wraith 20th treats the 6th Great Malestrom/Dja-akh as never having happened, however if one uses Mummy: the Resurrection, as I do where I serve as the storyteller, then it's in the setting for said game. FIguring out how to incorporate changes from a post-Malestrom isn't very difficult. In My own game, Stygia is rebuilding, as are other Dark Kingdoms, but Stygia being the most vast and the strongest, is rebuilding at a greater speed than the other Kingdoms. Amenti (as in the Dark Kingdom, not the mummies that use that name as an honorific) is still toast. There are literally no Wraiths left there that haven't been blasted into Oblivion or been saved by Osiris, to get a second chance as Tem-akh, if they can bond with Nehem-sen and become Reborn. I have no doubt that other capable storytellers would have their own way of doing things, including even using a complete alternative to how the Amenti come about and ignore the 6th Great Malestrom all together.
    What I'd dearly like to know is, as they become known among Wraiths, where and when this happens (let's face it, there's probably no memo floating around Stygia about them), is how they would be viewed by Wraiths. Further, would they not be seen as walking violations of the Dictum Mortuum, and thus be hunted by Stygian Legions if word of their presence was to get out, say when they're on a Death Cycle and are in the area as opposed to resting in A'aru, or even if they're not presently in the Underworld, but they're known to be lingering in the city connected to the local Necropolis? Would the fact that many of them are necromancers negatively impact this, and would the positive effects of some of their necromantic powers (like creating temporary haunts and repelling spectres) potentially work in their favour overall?

  • #2
    There are books on post-6GM Wraith; they’re called Orpheus.

    It ain’t pretty for our undead pals.


    Call me Remi. Female pronouns for me, please.

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    • #3
      Wait a minute. Do I need to re-read part of Wraith? I could have sworn that Orpheus was rolled in *without* the 6th Malestrom. Although I appreciate the input, this doesn't even begin to help with My initial questions on how Wraith and Mummy (waxing pedantic here for a moment, Undying, not undead) relate to one another as things are. None the less, thank you. As I'm clearly confused by what you said, I do need to re-read that section on Orpheus.

      With that being said, I would still appreciate some more feedback on My questions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lord Vil View Post
        Wait a minute. Do I need to re-read part of Wraith? I could have sworn that Orpheus was rolled in *without* the 6th Malestrom. Although I appreciate the input, this doesn't even begin to help with My initial questions on how Wraith and Mummy (waxing pedantic here for a moment, Undying, not undead) relate to one another as things are. None the less, thank you. As I'm clearly confused by what you said, I do need to re-read that section on Orpheus.

        With that being said, I would still appreciate some more feedback on My questions.
        The entire original Orpheus lines takes place after the 6GM destroys the Underworld. The final books explore what a post-6GM Underworld look like; Stygia is basically destroyed, and most wraiths are gone. As with most of the original WoD line, things got pretty apocalyptic.


        Call me Remi. Female pronouns for me, please.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lord Vil View Post
          Wait a minute. Do I need to re-read part of Wraith? I could have sworn that Orpheus was rolled in *without* the 6th Malestrom. Although I appreciate the input, this doesn't even begin to help with My initial questions on how Wraith and Mummy (waxing pedantic here for a moment, Undying, not undead) relate to one another as things are. None the less, thank you. As I'm clearly confused by what you said, I do need to re-read that section on Orpheus.

          With that being said, I would still appreciate some more feedback on My questions.

          Yeah, Orpheus has been rolled into W20 without the 6th Maelstrom.

          They would probably be hunted but as you said Stygia is rebuilding so theres probably not that many enforcers spare. I'd probably have them setting up cults or possibly negotiating with Ferrymen for a fast track to an Egyptian themed Far Shore.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

            The entire original Orpheus lines takes place after the 6GM destroys the Underworld. The final books explore what a post-6GM Underworld look like; Stygia is basically destroyed, and most wraiths are gone. As with most of the original WoD line, things got pretty apocalyptic.
            Heck, even 'Ends of Empire' which includes the 6GM makes it pretty clear Stygia got hit the hardest. Dark Kingdom of Jade may have faired better, depending on whether the Emperor is a Malfean or not. The former is better for the societies survival. The Maelstroms are better progressively worse.

            And again, Orpheus is the sequel gameline. It happens after 6GM and is a gross violation of the Dictus Mortem. If the Dark Kingdom of Iron still stood in any meaningful way, it would have been crushed, continually until they abandoned the project. The Anacreons responsible (if not the Leigon) would crow their success too loudly otherwise.
            On the plus side, 'End Game' makes it clear the New York necropolis survived, even if it is under spectre management.


            Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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            • #7
              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

              The entire original Orpheus lines takes place after the 6GM destroys the Underworld. The final books explore what a post-6GM Underworld look like; Stygia is basically destroyed, and most wraiths are gone. As with most of the original WoD line, things got pretty apocalyptic.
              ...wait, but isn't Lord referring to Orpheus20 and not original Orpheus, with the former taking place in a pre-6GM setting...?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

                ...wait, but isn't Lord referring to Orpheus20 and not original Orpheus, with the former taking place in a pre-6GM setting...?

                Yes, they were. But people seem to keep missing it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lord Vil View Post
                  Wraith 20th treats the 6th Great Malestrom/Dja-akh as never having happened, however if one uses Mummy: the Resurrection, as I do where I serve as the storyteller, then it's in the setting for said game. FIguring out how to incorporate changes from a post-Malestrom isn't very difficult. In My own game, Stygia is rebuilding, as are other Dark Kingdoms, but Stygia being the most vast and the strongest, is rebuilding at a greater speed than the other Kingdoms. Amenti (as in the Dark Kingdom, not the mummies that use that name as an honorific) is still toast. There are literally no Wraiths left there that haven't been blasted into Oblivion or been saved by Osiris, to get a second chance as Tem-akh, if they can bond with Nehem-sen and become Reborn. I have no doubt that other capable storytellers would have their own way of doing things, including even using a complete alternative to how the Amenti come about and ignore the 6th Great Malestrom all together.
                  What I'd dearly like to know is, as they become known among Wraiths, where and when this happens (let's face it, there's probably no memo floating around Stygia about them), is how they would be viewed by Wraiths. Further, would they not be seen as walking violations of the Dictum Mortuum, and thus be hunted by Stygian Legions if word of their presence was to get out, say when they're on a Death Cycle and are in the area as opposed to resting in A'aru, or even if they're not presently in the Underworld, but they're known to be lingering in the city connected to the local Necropolis? Would the fact that many of them are necromancers negatively impact this, and would the positive effects of some of their necromantic powers (like creating temporary haunts and repelling spectres) potentially work in their favour overall?

                  I think I'd agree with your intuition that the Amenti would be viewed as dangerous by the Hierarchy. My guess is that knowledge about them and attitudes towards them would be somewhat akin to how the Restless Dead view Ferrymen - some appreciate them, some despite or tolerate them, but all more or less fear and respect their power. Keep in mind two other things that would ensure that Amenti aren't killed flat out by Stygia: 1) There are too many fish to fry with Stygia rebuilding, which could lead to a "we'll get to you...eventually" or a "we'll get to you when we get the chance" kind or mentality and 2) Many other factions would likely find the Amenti desirable to protect as powerful allies (Heretics, Renegades, Guilds, Slayers, etc.) for their own devices, including thwarting the Hierarchy. Furthermore, if Spectres particularly hate them, Stygia could even brush aside their violations of the Dictum Mortem through propaganda discrediting them as myths in effort to utilize them as lightning rods for Spectral activity (i.e., to the citizens of Stygia: "Yeah right, those guys don't exist" or "They're just special Risen, which is BAD, but there are a lot of these buggers post-6th GM" vs. to the Spectres: "Pssst, why attack us rebuilding Stygia when there are THOSE guys over there who REALLY stand in opposition to Oblivion!").

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the feedback, and yes, I was certainly talking about Wr20's take, not how things stood prior to Wr20.

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                    • #11
                      Also adding to my previous comment, I'm guessing the Ferrymen would honor their previous bargain with Anubis, as he taught them the ritual of severance in exchange for protection of Amenti:

                      https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Severance

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                      • #12
                        Trategos - Thanks. I'm familiar with the basics of the ritual, but it'll be good to re-read that.

                        As far as Amenti dealing with Wraiths go, I guess then, that if an Amenti in spirit form is wandering around in any of the Necropoli governed by Stygia, that they'd be at risk of being captured and smelted due to their continuous violation of the Dictum Mortuum?

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                        • #13
                          Honestly, I think the Amenti would have the biggest threat from Spectres. They are so purely anti-Oblivion and powerful that I have to think they'd attract a lot of negative attention. That's why I liken them more to the Ferrymen. At the end of the day, Hierarchy or Spectres will probably think something like, "You're a dead man! Just as soon as my friends show up. And my friends' friends. Any minute now. Yep...just you wait."

                          As for the dictum Mortum, a strong argument could be made that it doesn't apply to them because they are the Undying. Still, I could see The Hierarchy getting concerned about the impact seeing Amenti could have on the Wraithly populace, like inciting them to become risen to be like them. Heretics and renegades would probably love it, at least some.

                          Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if it might not also be a little like how the Hierarcht would view a Silent Strider in the Shadowlands. Off the top of my head,, though, I can't think of any book that discusses that

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                          • #14
                            First of all I must admit that I cannot remember if this was changed in Resurrected but in Mummy 2nd edition which went, if I recall correctly, into more detail for the deathcycle the Mummies Ba souls Corpus different from Wraiths only due to slight luminescense that intensified as it gathered more Ba energy. So basically most Wraiths would not know that a Ba soul is anything but another Wraith. Pretty much the only or best way to notice that the Ba soul is not a Wraith would be through Castigation as they have no Shadows during their deathcycle being just the Ba soul.

                            So there would be no reason for Stygia to hunt them or even be knowledgeable enough of them to form such an opinion especially post 6th Maelstrom and the chaos that follows it.

                            Also atleast in Mummy 2nd as the Ba soul descended to the Underworld it was greeted by Anubis who offers to take that soul to the destination of it’s choice, back them it often was the Amenti for the Shemsu-heru and whatever destination they choose for the rest, Cabiri and others. It was also said that it was unknown whether Anubis also met the Banemummies during their deathcycles though it was in doubt. Also Mummies were favored by the Anubis and had his protection, which would mean that the Hierarchy officials who would try to instigate somekind of pogrom against the Amenti would likely face his wrath. He did not protect any Mummy from their own stupidity though so should an individual make enemies of his own through his actions he likely would not interfere.

                            So in summary there is unlikely to be a general opinion of the Amenti as they are nearly indistinguishable from normal Wraiths. Should an opinion form it’s likely that Anubis and the remaining Ferrymen would influence it quote a bit, that is to say it would likely end up as favorable rather than hunted for Dictum Mortuum infractions.

                            But again this is just my take on the matter and is heavily influenced by Mummy 2nd edition, which I personally like more, so YMMV.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                              But again this is just my take on the matter and is heavily influenced by Mummy 2nd edition, which I personally like more, so YMMV.
                              Not to derail the topic too much, but I'd be interested to know what you like about Mummy 2nd ed over resurrection (I've never played any yet, so it interests me)

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