Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shadowlands Questions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shadowlands Questions

    I'm playing a Giovanni Necromancer with Ash Path that lets him step across into the shadowlands.

    I have the wraith book and can get a sense of the place, but what can he expect to find in there exactly?

    Are the hierarchy everywhere?

    What does a maelstrom look like?

    Can you see the tempest below everything or is there a floor?

    Do wraiths walk or float?

    What do they look like to someone crossed over are they still ghosts? Does he look like a ghost to them?

    If a ghost wants to use Arcanoi across the shroud how does that work?

    And anything else that would be an immediate observation would be nice, I really dont wanna have my ST run me through it one on one, as there are quite a few players.

    Edit: Has anyone ever seen Dis Pater mentioned anywhere? Or a wraith who aids Necromancers?
    Last edited by Talvas; 01-26-2019, 01:07 AM.

  • #2
    I'll take a shot at answering some of these. Fair warning that I'm somewhat sleep deprived and I'm entirely going on memory here.

    If I was storyteller I'd probably have the Giovanni (at least initially) step into the Shadowlands, rather than the Tempest or anything else, unless rules say otherwise. Shadowlands is fairly straightforward - You've got most of the same buildings and objects, but in worse condition. Amount of Hierarchy really depends on where you cross over. Just like some cities in VtM are Camarilla or Anarch or Sabbat or largely independent, Necropoli can be Hierarch or Renegade or (maybe) Heretic controlled - I'd say more of a mix of all three in various amounts. As for the Tempest, no, that isn't just visible below you. The closest you're gonna get without going in is a Nihil. Wraiths walk unless they're using some Arcanos. They'll generally look like an abstracted form of their mortal body, maybe a bit idealized - with the exception of Artifact masks and heavy Moliation (think Viscissitude), then things get weird. Wraiths using Arcanoi across the Shroud is harder depending on the strength of the Local shroud, modified by things like time of day and date, etc. I have a theory on Dis Pater, which may or may not be canon. I can't remember.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Talvas View Post
      I'm playing a Giovanni Necromancer with Ash Path that lets him step across into the shadowlands.

      I have the wraith book and can get a sense of the place, but what can he expect to find in there exactly?

      Are the hierarchy everywhere?
      The Hiearchy is like the Camarilla. Now there are MORE ghosts than there are Vampires, but functionally its a powerful locally as the ST wants it to be. It might even be replaced by a rival faction.



      What does a maelstrom look like?
      a hurricane of bones and blood and pain.



      Can you see the tempest below everything or is there a floor?
      The Shadowlands looks like the mortal world but messed up. Getting into the deeper layers of the Underworld are probably beyond the necromancy you have available.


      Do wraiths walk or float?
      Generally they walk. Some have reasons to float/fly.

      What do they look like to someone crossed over are they still ghosts? Does he look like a ghost to them?
      You're clearly not a Ghost. Whether they know you're a vampire they know you aren't a ghost.

      If a ghost wants to use Arcanoi across the shroud how does that work?
      The Arcanoi will say whether or not it functions across the shroud and how it interacts with such.

      And anything else that would be an immediate observation would be nice, I really dont wanna have my ST run me through it one on one, as there are quite a few players.
      It takes quite awhile to draw a door of chalk and blood so you're not going to be heading over there on a whim... also suggest a ritual that allows you to bring others.


      Edit: Has anyone ever seen Dis Pater mentioned anywhere? Or a wraith who aids Necromancers?
      Dis pater is a real world title of Pluto. He may be an umbral spirit that helps with Necromancy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Additionally, not all Arcanoi can work across the Shroud...mostly because not all of them have any useful application for it. For instance, Argos is focused mainly on traversing through the Tempest, a phenomenon not in the Skinlands. Or Castigate which focuses on quelling the power of a wraith's Shadow, which is obviously something a mortal does not have.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, thanks alot. You're answers are very enlightening. My next question, there is Maelstrom IC currently and my Gio has a specter slave, or ally really, each is using the other. It has survival 4 with a shadowlands specialty.

          How does it avoid this maelstrom? Staying in the fetter or can he hang out on this side of the shroud?(which is what i figure my ST believes as well)
          Last edited by Talvas; 01-26-2019, 04:15 AM. Reason: Spelling

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Talvas View Post
            Wow, thanks alot. You're answers are very enlightening. My next question, there is Maelstrom IC currently and my Gio has a specter slave, or ally really, each is using the other. It has survival 4 with a shadowlands specialty.

            How does it avoid this maelstrom? Staying in the fetter or can he hang out on this side of the shroud?(which is what i figure my ST believes as well)
            First of all there are four ways for it to hang out on Skinlands side of the Shroud and these are the Arcanois Embody, Puppetry and Inhabit or becoming a Risen. But aside from that Spectres have Dark Arcanoi which allow them to enjoy the perks of having a soulripping storm of pain, bones, blood and stranger often sharp or acidic stuff around as Spectres often ride on the maelstrom winds.

            But seriously talking. If you aren’t in deep enough trouble associating with a Spectre entering the Shadowlands during a Maelstrom may be the worst idea of any Necromancer anywhere. You will have no protection against this soulshredding storm and it will leave you in pain and suffering at best and send your soul hurdling towards Oblivion at worst.

            Comment


            • #7
              Maelstroms are indeed bad, bad news. They're not even that good for most Spectres. The ones most known for riding the terrible winds, Shades, are also known for mindless destruction. That's not to say that other Spectres don't have the Tempest-Weaving Arcanos, but it's doubtful your ally has the kind of influence to stop the Shades from attacking. So not only do you risk the various detritus tearing you to pieces, you also have to watch out for ravening packs of vaguely human hunters.

              If your ally is looking for a way of surviving the Maelstrom he probably does not have Tempest-Weaving. That or he's on the run from something else. Either way, he can hang out in a Fetter (which presumably he still has if he's doing a lot of interacting with your Gio). If he wants to be more mobile, one of the base powers of the Dark Arcanos Corruption is to slip inside the body of a target. If you are comfortable letting a Spectre use a power called Corruption on you and enter your body that is an option. Alternatively you could arrange for another body for him to do that to. Probably the wiser move.


              Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

              Comment


              • #8
                There are rituals to fascilitate the spectre possessing people, but it doesnt have possession. And I definitely wasnt planning on having my vamp traverse the Maelstrom, but he can look across and see it, so I wanted to have a good idea of what it is.

                The specter is limited to discipline equivalents, so dominate would stand for most of that and the storm-riding is likely out. But since some are shadowlands only powers my ST might have them as abilities so it can survive, but need to rest often. He hasn't mentioned anythinh to me yet so I figure the spec is doin ok enough.

                I think I have a good idea now so I dont sound stupid later.

                Using Ash path, I plan to have him strong arm wraiths no fetters needed. If they won't cooperate he'll toss em in a Nihil. Once the maelstorm dies down of course.

                But thanks again, you were all very helpful, and keep those Dis Pater theories coming.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Possessed View Post

                  But seriously talking. If you aren’t in deep enough trouble associating with a Spectre
                  Also, what is the nature of the trouble from associating with a Specter? I'm just curious


                  If I understand the Dis Pater spiel correctly any wraith with the arcanoi to attack clan Gio in the skinlands is already a criminal and in violation of the Dictum Mortuum. This is what I figure keeps the Hierarchy from getting involved in general. So is it the shades and specters themselves? Or clan Gio?

                  Now, if he's in the shadowlands I imagine he's fair game for the hierarchy though.
                  Last edited by Talvas; 01-26-2019, 02:34 PM. Reason: Spelling

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The trouble with Spectre... well first of all associating with them makes you an ally of Oblivion and that makes you an enemy of every Hierarch, free Wraith, renegade, heretic and guildwraith outthere, even more than being a Giovanni does. Next is the fact that although your character does not know it, and will likely find out only in rather unfortunate circumstances, all Spectres are linked through a Hive-Mind so all your secrets the Spectre learn can potentially be spread far and wide without the Spectre ever leaving your presence, it also means that they may alert backup should your alliance abruptly end. But these are just minor problems compared to the fact that Spectres are driven and empowered by the darkest of all human emotions, anger, greed, envy, hate, sorrow Etc. All of which are likely plentiful around Vampires and unlike even most depraved of Vampires they are bound by no codes of conduct, no Path, Road or humanity guides them. All they wish is for the rest of existence to suffer like they have suffered before it all plummets down into the maw of Oblivion. They are empowered by suffering and hence they spread suffering, they are themselves constantly suffering, tormented and eaten away by Oblivion and wish for nothing more than all others to be similarly suffering. Your alliance does not matter, your threaths do not matter, your wishes do not matter all that matters is that Oblivion will swallow you all.

                    Thats it in a but shell. Your allied with an enemy of all that exists thus making you into an enemy of all by association or an unwitting dupe serving the interests of one, in either case you are better of dead and destroyed by the eyes of any who know of these things.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nice! It actually meshes quite well with the goal of the endless night. So at least it makes a little sense, and there are potentially some very interesting twists in store for my character.

                      In all seriousness, while I was thinking something like that, what I had in mind as the specters motives are just the tip of the ice berg compared to what you added.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Talvas View Post

                        Also, what is the nature of the trouble from associating with a Specter? I'm just curious


                        If I understand the Dis Pater spiel correctly any wraith with the arcanoi to attack clan Gio in the skinlands is already a criminal and in violation of the Dictum Mortuum. This is what I figure keeps the Hierarchy from getting involved in general. So is it the shades and specters themselves? Or clan Gio?

                        Now, if he's in the shadowlands I imagine he's fair game for the hierarchy though.

                        The Heirarchy is hypocrtical. They might soul forge someone for the same thing their agents do. The Dictum Mortuum is enforced in the same way the Traditions are enforced. Those with teh least political power are crushed by them those with the most find "loopholes"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If the agents in question are specifically allowed by the Deathlords to interact with the skinlands, it is not a crime. They usually aren't though.


                          Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ramnesis View Post
                            If the agents in question are specifically allowed by the Deathlords to interact with the skinlands, it is not a crime. They usually aren't though.

                            Necromancers and other problems across the shroud aren't defended by the Dictum Mortuum. The Heirarchy HAS risen members as of wr20 who go deal with Risen. They certainly have people with Outrage, Puppetry etc... they are just either more legally allowed to use it.. or since they are the people enforcing shit.. well

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lian View Post


                              Necromancers and other problems across the shroud aren't defended by the Dictum Mortuum. The Heirarchy HAS risen members as of wr20 who go deal with Risen. They certainly have people with Outrage, Puppetry etc... they are just either more legally allowed to use it.. or since they are the people enforcing shit.. well
                              Except, if that were the case, there would be no Giovanni. There has to be something protecting them. With a lot of influence.

                              If the right spirit is reading it strictly, they definitely are protected by the Dictum. I highly doubt there is a clause exempting Necromancers or other spirit mages, sorcerors psychics or mediums, etc.

                              It even says in the Clanbook any Giovanni can call on Dis Pater in times of great need and he will likely answer. I think Hierarchy enforcers fall under that.

                              I do agree that if one gets out of hand, caging ghosts left and right, a few spirits or the hierarchy might do something, but thats how the game goes. The prince might allow diablerie sometime. And the wraiths could start all out war just because my ST says so, haha.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X