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Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

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  • Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

    Hi everyone! I'll be working on some Wraith 20 sheets in the coming weeks, and I've run into an issue with the official sheet concerning Arcanoi. A kind soul sent me a copy of the sheet and I noticed that dots for Arcanoi were bisected. When I asked about it they sent me a snippet from the book.
    Per Wr20 (pg 147: Learning Arcanoi):
    "On the character sheet, the circles for Arcanoi are bisected, unlike the circles for other traits. When the character learns a common art at a given Arcanos rating, the player fills in the left side of the circle. When the character learns an initiate art (see following), the player fills in the right side of the circle. Either side of the circle counts as a dot in the Arcanos for rules purposes, but having both sides filled in doesn’t grant any additional bonus. Nor does learning more than one initiate art at a given rating, if the Storyteller decides to create additional initiate arts."

    The issue I have is, as far as an interactive character sheet goes, I can't do half-circles with form fields. I can only do a filled in circle. So, I wanted to ask y'all if you had any suggestions on how I should handle it. I could just do regular dots. Or I could do regular dots but try to come up with some way to differentiate which Arcanoi is common as opposed to initiate. Do y'all have any thoughts on the subject? I open to suggestions.


    I had someone on Patreon suggest maybe double stacking 2 sets of smaller dots, though I'd still need come up with a way to determine which set of dots was for which type.

    I'm thinking I could just set up the section so there is a place to write the name, and then a place for the 'type'(common or initiate) and then the dots.

    What do y''all think?

    Also, I noticed the divider text has a glowy shadow to it and I'm not sure I can replicate that effect in Acrobat effectively. I could try recreating the text in Photoshop, making it a graphic and then importing it back into Acrobat, but I'm not sure that going to look quite right(Acrobat gets weird with graphics sometimes). So, I may not be able to do that for my versions. Just wanted to let you know what was up, in case I can't do it.

    Anyway, thanks in advance for any suggestions! Hopefully I'll be able to make a decent sheet for Wraith 20!





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  • #2
    What I would suggest, and I'm far from a sheet making expert here, is similar to a Mage idea and similar to what you suggested. Have a section that labels each arcanos with the dots beside. Then, with a slightly indented section beneath each arcanos name written "initiate" and five more dots to the right of that.

    The downside here is that it will take up a bit more room than normal and likely be relegated to sheet 2.

    I can't speak for the glowy shadow problem but I do want to say that I love your sheets and have gotten much use out of them from many different games so thank you!

    - Diproc

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Diproclaminious View Post
      What I would suggest, and I'm far from a sheet making expert here, is similar to a Mage idea and similar to what you suggested. Have a section that labels each arcanos with the dots beside. Then, with a slightly indented section beneath each arcanos name written "initiate" and five more dots to the right of that.

      The downside here is that it will take up a bit more room than normal and likely be relegated to sheet 2.
      Thanks for the suggestion! I appreciate it.

      I guess I should ask, whats the difference between common and initiate? And could you have the same Arcanoi be both types? Or will it always be one or the other?

      Originally posted by Diproclaminious View Post
      I can't speak for the glowy shadow problem but I do want to say that I love your sheets and have gotten much use out of them from many different games so thank you!
      Aww...thank you so so much!! I appreciate you using them!



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      • #4
        Well all Wraith possess Arcanoi which are their wraithly powers. There are organizations in the shadowlands though called guilds and these guilds have taken the standard wraithly powers and refined them further.

        Much like medieval guilds of masonry, cobbling or banking you now have guilds of outrage, flux or usury. They take the trade (arcanos) and perfect it by mastering all there is. They then take these mastered and advanced techniques and teach them only to the initiated of the guild and thus, "Initiate" arcanos.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Diproclaminious View Post
          Well all Wraith possess Arcanoi which are their wraithly powers. There are organizations in the shadowlands though called guilds and these guilds have taken the standard wraithly powers and refined them further.

          Much like medieval guilds of masonry, cobbling or banking you now have guilds of outrage, flux or usury. They take the trade (arcanos) and perfect it by mastering all there is. They then take these mastered and advanced techniques and teach them only to the initiated of the guild and thus, "Initiate" arcanos.
          Thanks for the info! Appreciate the help!

          Seems like it's a one or the other type thing, so I'm thinking some way to specify what the type is will be the way to go.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post
            Seems like it's a one or the other type thing, so I'm thinking some way to specify what the type is will be the way to go.
            No actually.

            It's possible to have both Common and Initiate Arts on one wraith. And there's no mechanical restriction on having both. It's just that the Guilds are very protective of their Initiate Arts and don't like having anyone not in the club knowing about them.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
              No actually.

              It's possible to have both Common and Initiate Arts on one wraith. And there's no mechanical restriction on having both. It's just that the Guilds are very protective of their Initiate Arts and don't like having anyone not in the club knowing about them.
              Hmm....so you could have one Arcanoi, lets says 'Embody', that is both types? If that's the case, then yea, I'll have to come up with a way for someone to be able to mark both for each Arcanoi.

              Was this distinction there in the previous editions?


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

                Hmm....so you could have one Arcanoi, lets says 'Embody', that is both types? If that's the case, then yea, I'll have to come up with a way for someone to be able to mark both for each Arcanoi.

                Was this distinction there in the previous editions?
                The distinction was there but not quite how it is today, back then the Guildbooks gave alternate powers for all levels of that guilds Arcanoi but they werent named initiative Arts just alternate powers. And yes you have always been able to learn both the common version and the alternate power of the same Arcanoi level.

                In Wraith20 the book gives two powers per Arcanoi level for all Arcanoi with the other power being common and the other labeled initiate art. You can buy both powers for your character hence the half dots idea is given in the core.

                It is also suggested that there might be more alternate powers as well either for ST’s to create in their games or if one want to use some of the previously introduced new that did not fit into Wr20. So basically since you can have more alternate powers per level I do not think it particularly critical to have dual dots but one does need some space where to write the alternate powers down. The dual dot system is nice space saving method to mark down things if one uses just the powers presented in Wr20.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                  The distinction was there but not quite how it is today, back then the Guildbooks gave alternate powers for all levels of that guilds Arcanoi but they werent named initiative Arts just alternate powers. And yes you have always been able to learn both the common version and the alternate power of the same Arcanoi level.

                  In Wraith20 the book gives two powers per Arcanoi level for all Arcanoi with the other power being common and the other labeled initiate art. You can buy both powers for your character hence the half dots idea is given in the core.

                  It is also suggested that there might be more alternate powers as well either for ST’s to create in their games or if one want to use some of the previously introduced new that did not fit into Wr20. So basically since you can have more alternate powers per level I do not think it particularly critical to have dual dots but one does need some space where to write the alternate powers down. The dual dot system is nice space saving method to mark down things if one uses just the powers presented in Wr20.
                  Oh, wow. I guess it's been a looooong time since I've played Wraith. lol. Well, I guess I never really played an actual game of it myself, it was always a mix.

                  Anyway, I really appreciate all the info! That makes it pretty clear to me.

                  I'll have to see if I can figure out how to mark both for one line. And I suppose I need to come up with an expanded Arcanoi sheet to list out the powers. I'll have to think on this...



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                  • #10
                    Its aggravating and there's really no one truly good way to do it. Like they said, if someone were implementing alternate Arcanoi, then it might be better to have a seperate lines for Common and Initiate Arcanoi, which would allow you to use regular check boxes. On the flip side, having it all on one line with split dots requires effort. In the one I slapped together I just had a font use left-half, right-half and full circles. A check box before it cycled through the values. I considered having transparent left and right checkboxes to change values in left and right textboxes behind them. That would have required at least 4 controls for every level of the given Arcanos! I racked my brain for a more elegant solution but nothing short of javascript and trickery would yield anything useful. But if there is anyone who can pull off a simple and good looking approach to it, its you Mr. Gone.

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                    • #11
                      i personally have not been happy with what wraith 20th did to the arcani of the game, it is almost like they said you can only have 2 arts per level, so in the 2000+ years of the Stygian Empire, plus if you look in the older Guild books, there are a lot of other arts.

                      if you want to create a nice PC sheet, put all the basic info on the main sheet and on the secondary sheet, put an expanded arcanos list that has a place for the Collage and art name, cost, angst generated, dice pool stats, and any other info that may be needed.

                      and make it so that it can be reorganized once its been listed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mason View Post
                        Its aggravating and there's really no one truly good way to do it. Like they said, if someone were implementing alternate Arcanoi, then it might be better to have a seperate lines for Common and Initiate Arcanoi, which would allow you to use regular check boxes. On the flip side, having it all on one line with split dots requires effort. In the one I slapped together I just had a font use left-half, right-half and full circles. A check box before it cycled through the values. I considered having transparent left and right checkboxes to change values in left and right textboxes behind them. That would have required at least 4 controls for every level of the given Arcanos! I racked my brain for a more elegant solution but nothing short of javascript and trickery would yield anything useful. But if there is anyone who can pull off a simple and good looking approach to it, its you Mr. Gone.
                        Well thanks. Hopefully I can come up with something good! Like you said, it's almost impossible to do the half dots in Acrobat without some kind of javascript(which isn't my strong suit).

                        It's really weird to me that they do it that way...

                        I'm still trying to figure out what to do...


                        Originally posted by DeadMan View Post
                        i personally have not been happy with what wraith 20th did to the arcani of the game, it is almost like they said you can only have 2 arts per level, so in the 2000+ years of the Stygian Empire, plus if you look in the older Guild books, there are a lot of other arts.
                        Oh whoa. Yea, seems like there would be a lot more options....

                        Originally posted by DeadMan View Post
                        if you want to create a nice PC sheet, put all the basic info on the main sheet and on the secondary sheet, put an expanded arcanos list that has a place for the Collage and art name, cost, angst generated, dice pool stats, and any other info that may be needed.

                        and make it so that it can be reorganized once its been listed.
                        Yea, might the way to go. Kind what I was thinking, with an expanded Arcanoi sheet, to better detail everything.

                        But, I'm still thinking on it all...


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                        • #13
                          I have not forgotten this. Just got caught up in some V5 stuff.

                          This should be next on my agenda.


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