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Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    I think I prefer sheet2. More room for Arcanoi and though at first impression the small dots seem a bit too busy they grew on me non the less and now sheet1 looks somehow clumsy in comparison.
    Thanks for the feedback! I wasn't sure myself and thought both options seemed ok.

    Do you think we'd need some way to indicate which set of dots is for which? Assuming we go that way...


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    • #17
      I prefer the first because of the weird dot sizes. But perhaps the simplest way is to have one line for each Arcanos and just put Initiate Arts on the second page?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
        I prefer the first because of the weird dot sizes. But perhaps the simplest way is to have one line for each Arcanos and just put Initiate Arts on the second page?
        The feedback I got on Patreon they seemed to prefer the first option.

        And yea, I had considered just leaving it like normal and maybe adding a spot on page 2 for Initiate Arcanos or doing an expanded add-on sheet that would break it down into 2 dots per?


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        • #19
          Anyone else want to weigh in before I get started? I have a few votes for the first option, with one vote for option two and one for just leaving normal(basically).


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          • #20
            Hi everyone! I posted this on Patreon the other day and didn't get a response, so I thought I'd post it here.

            While I was working on the Wraith 20 sheets I had another idea for a way to format the Arcanoi section. Rather than using dots, I have a line for the name, and then two spots to write in the level (one for common the other for initiate). I made a test sheet for y'all check out. Let me know what you think about the idea... I don't think it looks too bad, but I thought I'd see what y'all thought.

            The sheet still has the temp white boxes behind things, so just ignore those, they'll be gone for the final the sheet.

            Let me know what you think about it...

            http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...TESTSHEET3.pdf



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            • #21
              Well...I think I like the 3rd option so I'll run with that for now!


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              • #22
                Sorry I have not had the time to comment... better late than never I suppose.

                The Third options problem is that you dont need to buy all the powers linearly. That is let’s say you have common Arcanoi at level 4, you could then learn initiate power of level 3 without having initiate powers 1 and 2. Hence there is a problem with your Third sheet in that just recordings levels on a single small line makes it difficult to mark these discrepancies. Also since as another scenario you could have Arcanoi at level 4 but the powers you know could easily be initiate for 1 and 2, common power for 3 and another common power at level 4 or any other combination thereof.

                Hence I would prefer dotted options found in the two previous versions, and personally liked the sheet2 with the minidots, with an added space for additional Arcanoi powers on another page of the sheet. I seem to recall old Wraith sheets having such space in them aswell.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                  Sorry I have not had the time to comment... better late than never I suppose.
                  That's what I always say.

                  Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                  The Third options problem is that you dont need to buy all the powers linearly. That is let’s say you have common Arcanoi at level 4, you could then learn initiate power of level 3 without having initiate powers 1 and 2. Hence there is a problem with your Third sheet in that just recordings levels on a single small line makes it difficult to mark these discrepancies. Also since as another scenario you could have Arcanoi at level 4 but the powers you know could easily be initiate for 1 and 2, common power for 3 and another common power at level 4 or any other combination thereof.
                  Hmm...ok, I'm confused. If I understand you correctly, you could have a common Arcanoi at level 4...but then you could have an initiate power of level 3 without having the initiate at level 1 or 2?

                  So basically, you have one rating but could potentially have two different types of powers at each level?

                  If that's the case, then maybe we need to come up a new way to record the individual powers rather than having two different dot tracts. Right?

                  So maybe I should keep the dots like on my original Wraith sheet and then have an expanded sheet where you could list out of the powers...?

                  Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                  Hence I would prefer dotted options found in the two previous versions, and personally liked the sheet2 with the minidots, with an added space for additional Arcanoi powers on another page of the sheet. I seem to recall old Wraith sheets having such space in them aswell.
                  Yea, the 4 page sheet has a spot on the back to write out some powers: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pd...e_Editable.pdf

                  I've set up the Wraith 20th sheet just like it. Though, I could give it more room if need be...



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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mr Gone
                    Hmm...ok, I'm confused. If I understand you correctly, you could have a common Arcanoi at level 4...but then you could have an initiate power of level 3 without having the initiate at level 1 or 2?
                    Yes. Basically your Arcanoi rating doesn’t care which kind of power you have at each level. So theoretically a Guild Wraith could have Arcanoi at level 5 with only initiate powers or 1-2 initiate, 3 common and 4-5 initiate, or the other way around or any other combination therof.

                    So when you buy a level of Arcanoi you choose whether you buy it as common or initiate, and you make this choice at each level, but you can go back to buy the alternate power you left behind later, if that makes better sense. I find this surprisingly difficult concept to communicate clearly even though the matter itself is quite simple.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                      Yes. Basically your Arcanoi rating doesn’t care which kind of power you have at each level. So theoretically a Guild Wraith could have Arcanoi at level 5 with only initiate powers or 1-2 initiate, 3 common and 4-5 initiate, or the other way around or any other combination therof.

                      So when you buy a level of Arcanoi you choose whether you buy it as common or initiate, and you make this choice at each level, but you can go back to buy the alternate power you left behind later, if that makes better sense. I find this surprisingly difficult concept to communicate clearly even though the matter itself is quite simple.
                      Yea, it does sound a little complicated... but not too much. Though it does seem complicated when it comes to finding a way to record it.

                      In my mind, it seems the best way to record it is to have a single dot rating and then come up with a way to record what powers you have at that level.

                      So, I'm thinking I'll revert the sheet back to a single dot track, and then make an expanded Arcanoi sheet to record the powers at each level. And maybe I'll see if I can do something on page 2 of the 4 page sheet to do the same... Think that's be ok?


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

                        Yea, it does sound a little complicated... but not too much. Though it does seem complicated when it comes to finding a way to record it.

                        In my mind, it seems the best way to record it is to have a single dot rating and then come up with a way to record what powers you have at that level.

                        So, I'm thinking I'll revert the sheet back to a single dot track, and then make an expanded Arcanoi sheet to record the powers at each level. And maybe I'll see if I can do something on page 2 of the 4 page sheet to do the same... Think that's be ok?
                        That sounds rather good and will propably be the best solution.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Possessed View Post

                          That sounds rather good and will propably be the best solution.
                          Awesome. Well, I'll see what I can cook up for the expanded sheet and I'll post up a sample to check out.

                          Thanks for the explanation!


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                          • #28
                            Possessed I cooked up a few test sheets for you to look at for an Expanded Arcanoi sheet. I looked at the one I'd made previously and made a few riffs on that layout.

                            The first one is pretty expanded and has room for 2 per sheet: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST1.pdf

                            The second one is a little like the first but a little less detailed, so there is 4 per page: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST2.pdf

                            The third one is a little close to the second, but formatted just slightly differently, and still 4 per page: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST3.pdf

                            Anyway, those were my initial thoughts, hopefully one of those will work. But, take a look and let me know what you think.


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                            • #29
                              @Mr Gone
                              I like the amount of detail on the first but would personally go with the second due to it having space for four Arcanoi, its formatting seems easier on the eyes and I think one can fit the necessary details on the notes line.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                                @Mr Gone
                                I like the amount of detail on the first but would personally go with the second due to it having space for four Arcanoi, its formatting seems easier on the eyes and I think one can fit the necessary details on the notes line.
                                Ok, cool! Thanks for taking a look. I thought the second one might be the way to go, since it could fit more. I actually had a few spare lines, but not enough to add lines to every section, so there is like an extra space or so between the sections.

                                But, I'll run with the second one. And I'll see if I can come up with a way to condense it a little more to maybe add a section on the second page of the 4-page sheet. Have to see how it goes...

                                I'll post up a sample once I have something ready.


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