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Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

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  • Mr Gone
    started a topic Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

    Wraith 20th Character Sheets and Arcanoi

    Hi everyone! I'll be working on some Wraith 20 sheets in the coming weeks, and I've run into an issue with the official sheet concerning Arcanoi. A kind soul sent me a copy of the sheet and I noticed that dots for Arcanoi were bisected. When I asked about it they sent me a snippet from the book.
    Per Wr20 (pg 147: Learning Arcanoi):
    "On the character sheet, the circles for Arcanoi are bisected, unlike the circles for other traits. When the character learns a common art at a given Arcanos rating, the player fills in the left side of the circle. When the character learns an initiate art (see following), the player fills in the right side of the circle. Either side of the circle counts as a dot in the Arcanos for rules purposes, but having both sides filled in doesn’t grant any additional bonus. Nor does learning more than one initiate art at a given rating, if the Storyteller decides to create additional initiate arts."

    The issue I have is, as far as an interactive character sheet goes, I can't do half-circles with form fields. I can only do a filled in circle. So, I wanted to ask y'all if you had any suggestions on how I should handle it. I could just do regular dots. Or I could do regular dots but try to come up with some way to differentiate which Arcanoi is common as opposed to initiate. Do y'all have any thoughts on the subject? I open to suggestions.


    I had someone on Patreon suggest maybe double stacking 2 sets of smaller dots, though I'd still need come up with a way to determine which set of dots was for which type.

    I'm thinking I could just set up the section so there is a place to write the name, and then a place for the 'type'(common or initiate) and then the dots.

    What do y''all think?

    Also, I noticed the divider text has a glowy shadow to it and I'm not sure I can replicate that effect in Acrobat effectively. I could try recreating the text in Photoshop, making it a graphic and then importing it back into Acrobat, but I'm not sure that going to look quite right(Acrobat gets weird with graphics sometimes). So, I may not be able to do that for my versions. Just wanted to let you know what was up, in case I can't do it.

    Anyway, thanks in advance for any suggestions! Hopefully I'll be able to make a decent sheet for Wraith 20!




  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Possessed , I couldn't think of a good way to get any kind of expanded Arcanoi section in the space I had to work with on page 2 of the 4 page sheet....so, I made the "Ancient/New Arts" section from my original sheet bigger, and then moved the "Artifacts/Relics" section beside it in place of Experience section that was there.

    Here's a link to a temp sheet for you to check out: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...activeTEMP.pdf

    Hopefully that'll be ok... but, if you (or anyone else) have any ideas I'm open to suggestion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    @Mr Gone
    I like the amount of detail on the first but would personally go with the second due to it having space for four Arcanoi, its formatting seems easier on the eyes and I think one can fit the necessary details on the notes line.
    Ok, cool! Thanks for taking a look. I thought the second one might be the way to go, since it could fit more. I actually had a few spare lines, but not enough to add lines to every section, so there is like an extra space or so between the sections.

    But, I'll run with the second one. And I'll see if I can come up with a way to condense it a little more to maybe add a section on the second page of the 4-page sheet. Have to see how it goes...

    I'll post up a sample once I have something ready.

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    @Mr Gone
    I like the amount of detail on the first but would personally go with the second due to it having space for four Arcanoi, its formatting seems easier on the eyes and I think one can fit the necessary details on the notes line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Possessed I cooked up a few test sheets for you to look at for an Expanded Arcanoi sheet. I looked at the one I'd made previously and made a few riffs on that layout.

    The first one is pretty expanded and has room for 2 per sheet: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST1.pdf

    The second one is a little like the first but a little less detailed, so there is 4 per page: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST2.pdf

    The third one is a little close to the second, but formatted just slightly differently, and still 4 per page: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...tive_TEST3.pdf

    Anyway, those were my initial thoughts, hopefully one of those will work. But, take a look and let me know what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post

    That sounds rather good and will propably be the best solution.
    Awesome. Well, I'll see what I can cook up for the expanded sheet and I'll post up a sample to check out.

    Thanks for the explanation!

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

    Yea, it does sound a little complicated... but not too much. Though it does seem complicated when it comes to finding a way to record it.

    In my mind, it seems the best way to record it is to have a single dot rating and then come up with a way to record what powers you have at that level.

    So, I'm thinking I'll revert the sheet back to a single dot track, and then make an expanded Arcanoi sheet to record the powers at each level. And maybe I'll see if I can do something on page 2 of the 4 page sheet to do the same... Think that's be ok?
    That sounds rather good and will propably be the best solution.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    Yes. Basically your Arcanoi rating doesn’t care which kind of power you have at each level. So theoretically a Guild Wraith could have Arcanoi at level 5 with only initiate powers or 1-2 initiate, 3 common and 4-5 initiate, or the other way around or any other combination therof.

    So when you buy a level of Arcanoi you choose whether you buy it as common or initiate, and you make this choice at each level, but you can go back to buy the alternate power you left behind later, if that makes better sense. I find this surprisingly difficult concept to communicate clearly even though the matter itself is quite simple.
    Yea, it does sound a little complicated... but not too much. Though it does seem complicated when it comes to finding a way to record it.

    In my mind, it seems the best way to record it is to have a single dot rating and then come up with a way to record what powers you have at that level.

    So, I'm thinking I'll revert the sheet back to a single dot track, and then make an expanded Arcanoi sheet to record the powers at each level. And maybe I'll see if I can do something on page 2 of the 4 page sheet to do the same... Think that's be ok?

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Gone
    Hmm...ok, I'm confused. If I understand you correctly, you could have a common Arcanoi at level 4...but then you could have an initiate power of level 3 without having the initiate at level 1 or 2?
    Yes. Basically your Arcanoi rating doesn’t care which kind of power you have at each level. So theoretically a Guild Wraith could have Arcanoi at level 5 with only initiate powers or 1-2 initiate, 3 common and 4-5 initiate, or the other way around or any other combination therof.

    So when you buy a level of Arcanoi you choose whether you buy it as common or initiate, and you make this choice at each level, but you can go back to buy the alternate power you left behind later, if that makes better sense. I find this surprisingly difficult concept to communicate clearly even though the matter itself is quite simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    Sorry I have not had the time to comment... better late than never I suppose.
    That's what I always say.

    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    The Third options problem is that you dont need to buy all the powers linearly. That is let’s say you have common Arcanoi at level 4, you could then learn initiate power of level 3 without having initiate powers 1 and 2. Hence there is a problem with your Third sheet in that just recordings levels on a single small line makes it difficult to mark these discrepancies. Also since as another scenario you could have Arcanoi at level 4 but the powers you know could easily be initiate for 1 and 2, common power for 3 and another common power at level 4 or any other combination thereof.
    Hmm...ok, I'm confused. If I understand you correctly, you could have a common Arcanoi at level 4...but then you could have an initiate power of level 3 without having the initiate at level 1 or 2?

    So basically, you have one rating but could potentially have two different types of powers at each level?

    If that's the case, then maybe we need to come up a new way to record the individual powers rather than having two different dot tracts. Right?

    So maybe I should keep the dots like on my original Wraith sheet and then have an expanded sheet where you could list out of the powers...?

    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    Hence I would prefer dotted options found in the two previous versions, and personally liked the sheet2 with the minidots, with an added space for additional Arcanoi powers on another page of the sheet. I seem to recall old Wraith sheets having such space in them aswell.
    Yea, the 4 page sheet has a spot on the back to write out some powers: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pd...e_Editable.pdf

    I've set up the Wraith 20th sheet just like it. Though, I could give it more room if need be...

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Sorry I have not had the time to comment... better late than never I suppose.

    The Third options problem is that you dont need to buy all the powers linearly. That is let’s say you have common Arcanoi at level 4, you could then learn initiate power of level 3 without having initiate powers 1 and 2. Hence there is a problem with your Third sheet in that just recordings levels on a single small line makes it difficult to mark these discrepancies. Also since as another scenario you could have Arcanoi at level 4 but the powers you know could easily be initiate for 1 and 2, common power for 3 and another common power at level 4 or any other combination thereof.

    Hence I would prefer dotted options found in the two previous versions, and personally liked the sheet2 with the minidots, with an added space for additional Arcanoi powers on another page of the sheet. I seem to recall old Wraith sheets having such space in them aswell.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Well...I think I like the 3rd option so I'll run with that for now!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Hi everyone! I posted this on Patreon the other day and didn't get a response, so I thought I'd post it here.

    While I was working on the Wraith 20 sheets I had another idea for a way to format the Arcanoi section. Rather than using dots, I have a line for the name, and then two spots to write in the level (one for common the other for initiate). I made a test sheet for y'all check out. Let me know what you think about the idea... I don't think it looks too bad, but I thought I'd see what y'all thought.

    The sheet still has the temp white boxes behind things, so just ignore those, they'll be gone for the final the sheet.

    Let me know what you think about it...

    http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/mi...TESTSHEET3.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Anyone else want to weigh in before I get started? I have a few votes for the first option, with one vote for option two and one for just leaving normal(basically).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Gone
    replied
    Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
    I prefer the first because of the weird dot sizes. But perhaps the simplest way is to have one line for each Arcanos and just put Initiate Arts on the second page?
    The feedback I got on Patreon they seemed to prefer the first option.

    And yea, I had considered just leaving it like normal and maybe adding a spot on page 2 for Initiate Arcanos or doing an expanded add-on sheet that would break it down into 2 dots per?

    Leave a comment:

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