Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Questions about Wraiths from a V20 ST

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Quatar
    started a topic Questions about Wraiths from a V20 ST

    Questions about Wraiths from a V20 ST

    Hi

    I’m running a V20 game where one of my players is a Giovanni, and therefore deals with ghosts. I don’t know particular much about Wraiths myself, and so far I’ve been mostly winging it, but I wanna get better at this, and that’s why I’m here, asking you Wraith experts.

    I’m trying to understand the nature and mechanic of wraiths, at least as far as it’s important for a Vampire game. That means I want to sort of capture the spirit of things well enough, and for that I’ll have to sort of understand how things work, but I don’t really want to get into the nitty gritty of wraith politics.

    So here I got a lot of questions now.

    I figure not all of them just have a simple answer, if so, maybe give me the short version, and maybe let me know where I can find more details if I like. If the answers to the question differ for “recently dead” and “dead for 100 years” wraiths, or something, it would be cool if you point that out too.

    Topology
    1) Skinlands are the land of the living. Shadowland is the land of the dead. Can wraiths/ghosts actually be in the Skinlands, invisble to mortals? Or are they always in the Shadowlands, but can learn to “reach across” to manipulate things, or speak to people etc? I’m honestly a little confused how all those things interact.

    Wraith powers:
    2) What would a wraith need to do to talk to mortals/vampires?
    3) What would it take to attack and injure them?
    4) How is it different when the vampire is a Giovanni and uses either “Witness of Death” (allowing them to see ghosts in the skinlands) or “Shroudsight” (allowing them to actually perceive the Shadowlands, landscape and all)
    5) Can a wraith easily listen in on conversations among mortals/vampires?
    6) How easy is it for them to tell humans apart from vampires, werewolves, mages etc?
    7) Can a wraith possess a living, breathing, awake human?
    8) What about an unconscious or dead human?
    9) A vampire? Awake or asleep or in torpor?
    10) How fast and how far can a wraith travel?
    11) Can a ghost interact with technology, either passively (like watching TV) or actively (messing up a computer)?

    Fetters:
    12) If a necromancer gets hold of a Wraith’s fetter, is it more like a negotiation tool “Do this, or I’ll destroy the fetter”, or is there actual power in it that allows whoever holds it to have power or control of the wraith?

    Vampire specific questions:
    13) Can a wraith be ghouled? I’d guess not normally, but are there specific circumstances that allow it? If the vampire manages to enter the Shadowlands, either physically (with the Ex Nihilo discipline power) or as a ghost (with the Orphic Sojourn ritual for example) or another way. Or while the wraith is possessing someone?

    I think that’s it for now.



  • Beelzebjörn
    replied
    [Removed because wrong thread - post might still be available in the Shadowlands]

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Originally posted by Quatar View Post
    Thank you very much for that detailed description Possessed! Much learned from it and much appreciated!
    No problem, mate. Glad to be of assistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quatar
    replied
    Thank you very much for that detailed description Possessed! Much learned from it and much appreciated!

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    The only structures that exist in the Shadowlands are those which have been destroyed in the Skinlands but held such emotional importance to people as to basically leave a ”Ghost” of the building, or it’s ruins, behind. So it is extremely rare for a wall to exist simultaneusly in both realms as that would require for the house to have been destroyed once, and that the house held such powerful importance to mortals as to leave a Ghost version of it behind, and rebuild to the exactly same spot and according to the same blueprint.

    The few cases where such is likely to happen are local landmark building that after being destroyed in say a fire are rebuild to preserve the landmark. And even in such cases only the destroyed parts, unless ofcourse it was entirely destroyed, manifest in the Shadowlands. So if one floor of an emotianally important building is destroyed in a fire only that floor crosses over to the Shadowlands.

    It is all a bit hard to grasp at first but once it clicks it should become easier. Only important places, emotionally important places, leave structures into the Shadowlands and even those only after their Skinlands version is destroyed. Important building can be generally emotional, like historical landmark Etc, or something more personal, the house where Buffalo Bill held his captives in a pit in silence of the lambs for example is filled with the anguished memories of those killed there and the FBI’s personel will only strengthen that and so should the house burn down it is likely to appear in the Shadowlands. Strong emotional context and importance is what ultimately decides what crosses over.

    So in shortly put, too late I know, the Skinlands and Shadowlands buildings are extremely unlikely to ever be 1:1 mirrors of each other. But Wraiths perceive and use Skinlands buildings, though to their eyes those are rotten and decayed, as normal and by going incorporeal, taking one bashing damage, can walk through said Skinland walls at will. They stay incorporeal for stamina rounds per bashing so there are some limits. Hence the best spies either ride into places through the electric Highway or by skinriding one of the people going to a place, or by just walking right behind them so they can slip in through doors as their opened.

    Also I should note that if for somereason there is a building that exists as a 1:1 mirror on both sides then to enter it the Wraith may not be able to walk through walls but they could still enter by opening the Shadowlands side door and then going incorporeal to walk through the still unopened Skinlands door.
    Last edited by Possessed; 07-14-2019, 10:35 AM. Reason: Typo

    Leave a comment:


  • Quatar
    replied
    14. Yes my game is a Vampire game, and the Giovanni player has befriended a Wraith and she's helping out sometimes with things like that. I take it from your comment that Skin- and Shadowland buildings aren't 1:1 mirrors of each other? So I might go the opposite direction and let the Skinlands architecture take precedence, since that's where our game takes place.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by Quatar View Post
    Hey, I'm just reviving this thread of mine from a while ago, since a few new questions came up in the recent session of our game:

    14) It's about being incorporeal and walking through walls. Seems fairly straight forward, but what I understand is that most places exist as a reflection in the Shadowlands, and a Wraith can't pass through those. So if a wall or door exists in both, they couldn't just phase through? Is there anything they can do to get into the house then?
    15) It says doing that causes them to take 1 bashing damage. Is that damage soakable?

    Ok really just two questions.
    14. Unless if I'm missing something, there's no solid answer on what to do. Honestly, I'd say handwave it away and whatever makes the most sense. It would make things way too confusing to try to keep track of where the architecture of Skinlands or Shadowlands building intersect or not. Planning in a game of mine to just have the Shadowland building take precedence and have it only become an issue if the wraith is trying to use cross-Shroud Arcanoi.

    15. No, it is not soakable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quatar
    replied
    Hey, I'm just reviving this thread of mine from a while ago, since a few new questions came up in the recent session of our game:

    14) It's about being incorporeal and walking through walls. Seems fairly straight forward, but what I understand is that most places exist as a reflection in the Shadowlands, and a Wraith can't pass through those. So if a wall or door exists in both, they couldn't just phase through? Is there anything they can do to get into the house then?
    15) It says doing that causes them to take 1 bashing damage. Is that damage soakable?

    Ok really just two questions.

    Leave a comment:


  • marin
    replied
    Originally posted by Quatar View Post
    Yes it was quite a lot, I admit that. Thank you so much for the answers, it shed some much needed light on these creatures that I've never really understood.

    Just a few followups

    1) The reason I asked this was because the Giovanni power "Witness of Death" says "Success allows the vampire to perceive ghosts as described for the rest of the scene (in the mortal world — seeing ghosts in the land of the dead requires Shroudsight, on p. 163)." Shroudsight then goes on to say: "Shroudsight allows a necromancer to see through the Shroud, the mystical barrier that separates the living world from the Underworld. By using this power, the vampire can spot ghostly buildings and items, the landscape of the so-called Shadowlands, and even wraiths themselves." So whoever wrote that clearly believed there was a difference somehow.

    2) Ah yes, Embody 1 or 2 is probably what I was looking for. Though using the TV might also work.

    3) I'm sorry, I might have formulated the question a bit wrong. I meant, what does a wraith have to do to attack a mortal or vampire? I guess Embody to create an actual body would work, so would puppeterring, obviously. Anything more "mystical" from an invisible foe?
    Also if a ghost is "killed" in its Embody form, are they just banished or truely dead?

    6) So definitely makes sense that a wraith that had contact with multiple vampires (the Giovanni actually befriended that one) to be able to say "There's one other kinda like you in there", even if its a fairly new wraith. Few month old only. Good can work with that.

    10) Probably not going to come up but out of interest: With the Inhabit Arcanoi, can a wraith travel through the cellphone network and wifi, or just hardwired landlines?
    3) Outrage allows hitting someone with the power of your mind, unleashing a telekinetic storm, conjuring up barrow-flame, and inflicting raw destructive energy that can send a target to Oblivion. Keening 4, when used in Embodied form, can terrify someone so much it leaves damage. Phantasm 5 lets a wraith temporarily rip out a sleeping mortal's soul, inflicting damage. Usury 3 allows the wraith to drain the health levels of a Skinlands subject they're in physical or spiritual contact with (via Embody, Puppetry, Phantasm, Inhabit, etc.).

    Wraiths also have a fair few mindfucking and reality-fucking powers they can use to mess with Skinlands subjects, but they don't cause damage as such.

    Killing a wraith in an Embodied form sends them into a Harrowing (as what's happened is that they've lost all temporary Corpus), putting them out of action for a while at best.

    10) Wireless is fine, it just requires two material endpoints that're both networked.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quatar
    replied
    Yes it was quite a lot, I admit that. Thank you so much for the answers, it shed some much needed light on these creatures that I've never really understood.

    Just a few followups

    1) The reason I asked this was because the Giovanni power "Witness of Death" says "Success allows the vampire to perceive ghosts as described for the rest of the scene (in the mortal world — seeing ghosts in the land of the dead requires Shroudsight, on p. 163)." Shroudsight then goes on to say: "Shroudsight allows a necromancer to see through the Shroud, the mystical barrier that separates the living world from the Underworld. By using this power, the vampire can spot ghostly buildings and items, the landscape of the so-called Shadowlands, and even wraiths themselves." So whoever wrote that clearly believed there was a difference somehow.

    2) Ah yes, Embody 1 or 2 is probably what I was looking for. Though using the TV might also work.

    3) I'm sorry, I might have formulated the question a bit wrong. I meant, what does a wraith have to do to attack a mortal or vampire? I guess Embody to create an actual body would work, so would puppeterring, obviously. Anything more "mystical" from an invisible foe?
    Also if a ghost is "killed" in its Embody form, are they just banished or truely dead?

    6) So definitely makes sense that a wraith that had contact with multiple vampires (the Giovanni actually befriended that one) to be able to say "There's one other kinda like you in there", even if its a fairly new wraith. Few month old only. Good can work with that.

    10) Probably not going to come up but out of interest: With the Inhabit Arcanoi, can a wraith travel through the cellphone network and wifi, or just hardwired landlines?


    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Back again.

    12) For the most part it is a negotiation tool, rather extertion tool to be exact, but there are Necromancy rituals that require a Fetter and if I remember correctly possessing a Wraiths Fetter will allow some bonuses to use Necromancy on said Wraith.

    But as far as extortion goes Fetters are the most important things a Wraith has so it is a powerful tool to have. But it is generally more polite to convince Wraiths to work for you by offering to protect, potentially for ever as Vampires are immortal, ones Fetters rather than bluntly intimidating them with it’s destruction.

    13) Wraiths cannot be Ghouled. But they don’t need to be as Necromancy gives you a frightening array of tools to keep Wraiths in line.

    That’s all folks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    So where were we?

    5) Yes. Wraiths can generally perceive Skinlands quite well, though thinner the Shroud the easier it is and around Vampires Shroud tends to be thinner in general, and both see and listen almost normally. Though this is made even easier if the Wraith just skinrides, possess without exerting influence, one of the conversing party.

    6) All Wraiths have Lifesight and Deathsight which former of which allows them to see auras and latter allows them, or causes them, to see weaknesses, as in diseases or other such physical ailments, and thus assess a living beings general health. Together these allow knowledgeable Wraiths to identify other supernaturals.
    Also Vampires tend to have both anger and lust for blood dominating their emotions while werewolves are bursting with barely contained rage, again these will help a knowledgeable Wraith in picking up other supernaturals.

    7) Yes they can if they have Puppetry Arcanoi.

    8) Unconscious yes, although depending on the reason they might have to try to wake them up to actually do anything other than lie there.
    Dead, generally no but there is an exception to this rule. Actually two exceptions. First one is the Wraiths own corpse, which they can possess with the correct, and secret, knowledge and combination of Arcanoi thus becoming one of the Risen and being permanently, well untill he decides to leave or the body is destroyed, in the Skinlands. The second one is Obliterate the Soul power of Puppetry Arcanoi where the body isn’t technically dead per se just that the original soul driving it has been destroyed, and the body slowly starts to rot away but untill it does the Puppeteer is free to drive around with it as he pleases. The aforementioned Arcanoi has been needed a bit in Wraith20 as it now can only be used on normal mortals, before it worked just as well with anyone as it is quite a difficult and costly power to use but even back then it was quite useless against Vampires as their bodies tend to rot away t dust rather fast after the original soul is gone.

    9) Yes to all. Though not sure if they could move about if the vampire was in torpor, likely they could not. Again Puppetry allows this though Diablerist can be a problematic thing to possess and not recommended as the possession may cause one of the Diablerized souls to take over the vampire, which can be problematic for the Wraith if they accidentally awaken a diablerized Necromancer.

    10) In the Shadowlands Wraiths can generally travel as fast as they can run, so at human speed. Using some mode of transportation naturally speeds that up. Outside of normal transit and possible relic vehicles Wraiths with Lifeweb Arcanoi can nearly instanteusly travel to their Fetters and those with Inhabit can Ride the Electric Highway to travel electronically with the speed of thought to pretty much anywhere connected to the web. Also taking a short cut through the Tempest can allow Wraith to travel considerably faster if they either know Argos Arcanoi or have someone who does know as a guide.
    Generally speaking Wraiths do not travel that far from their Fetters but that is just common sense on their part. They can travel where ever they want for short visits though or along with one of their Fetters.

    11) Yes.

    Any Wraith may passively watch TV if one is on just like anyone else. But they cannot affect it in anyway without Arcanoi. On the other hand Inhabit Arcanoi is about possessing machines including tv’s or computers and travelling through electric wires or along digital information using Wire Rider (used to be Ride the Electric Highway if my memory serves me right) power from said Arcanoi. They can take the machine over while possessing and use it in any way the machine can be used. So yes Inhabit user can mess up a computer.

    Also Outrage Arcanoi allows Wraith to reach across the Shroud to affect the Skinlands physically, usually violently, that can allow one to push buttons and thus in a very simple way interact with technology.

    To be continued as rl calls. Again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Possessed
    replied
    Wow, thats quite a list... I’ll start with some answers and hopefully have time to answer them all but if not I atleast answer some of them.

    1) Skinlands and Shadowlands are situated on top of each other or rather between each other or something like that. That is to say while they are seperated by the Shroud they still occupy the same space so to speak. So a Wraith standing in the Shadowlands stands at the same spot in the Skinlands though he isn’t actually in the Skinlands, that is to say someone in the Skinlands walking through the space he occupies in the Shadowlands will cause the Wraith to go incorporeal as he is walking through the Wraith.
    That was a bit complicated.
    So simply put Wraiths are always in the Shadowlands, unless they use certain Arcanoi to crossover, but still occupy the same space in the Skinlands although you need special senses or powers, like Necromancy, to perceive them.
    There are Arcanoi powers that allow the Wraith to reach over to the Skinlands and there are powers that allow them to crossover to Skinlands and the latter are mostly either through Puppetry (possession) and Embody (creating a body or form for yourself in the Skinlands).

    2) Arcanoi.
    Puppetry allows a Wraith to possess a mortal/vampire and talk through him/her. Embody allows one to whisper across the Shroud or create your own temporary body in the Skinlands to talk and act through. Inhabit allows one to possess machines, like TV/computer and communicate through those. Pandemonium allows one to write things on a wall in blood, insects or something else equally disturbing. Phantams allows a Wraith to go into your Dreams and talk to you in there. And I am certainly missing some options here.

    3) Necromancy is the single most powerful weapon against Wraiths so that, and the weapons cratable through necromantic rituals. Other than that Vampires can do fairly little directly against Wraiths. But if one can find a way to perceive Wraiths or deduct it’s location one can simply attack the space the Wraith occupies and if one hits cause a single level of bashing damage to the Wraith causing them to go incorporeal, and immune to further such damage from the Skinlands, for their stamina turns, this also allows them to just leave through walls and such.
    If Wraith is within the Skinlands though normal methods of causing damage suffice, that is if the Wraith is embodied in the Skinlands you can just hit them normally and cause the normal amount of damage similarly if possessing a victim they will feel the victims pain as well, though they can just leave the body if need be.

    4) Witness of Death allows the Giovanni to see Wraiths simple as that. Shroudsight allows one to see the Shadowlands which means the Giovanni will not only see Wraiths but also relics, that is ghostly objects and structures.

    5) Yes.

    More answers forthcoming when I have more time.
    Last edited by Possessed; 05-19-2019, 03:34 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X