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Setting up bases in the Middle and High Umbra

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
    I know this is late, but isn't Ephemera a nWoD thing?

    Indeed, the term used for umbrood is Essense.

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    • #17
      Ephemera it's used both in nWoD and cWoD to define the "matter" of the spiritual stuff.

      https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Ephemera

      Essence it's the hp/mana of spirits in cWoD, but they're regarded as ephemeral beings/made of ephemera anyway.

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      • #18
        Umbra Revised mentioned some ghosts from the Holocaust finding their way into the Atrocity Realm, resulting in the "Dark Kingdom of Wire".

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        • #19
          I thought they only had territory in the Shadowlands only? Well anyway with that bit of information atleast its confirmed that Wraiths can ATLEAST go to other realms in the Low Umbra other than the Underworld. What about going to Battleground or Scar?


          Jade Kingdom Warrior

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
            What about using Artificers to imbue a soulcrafted airship or even using Relic Artifact airships like the Hinderbrg to sail to the Middle and High Umbra from the Shadowlands/Pneumbra? Also all the lost/destroyed aircraft during WWI and WWII?

            Edit: Also (Barring you roughly ignore the 1999 Six Maelstorm to continue a Wraith game into the 21st century) what about modern aircraft? I'm sure the Hierarchy would already Reap former aircraft engineers gifted with Inhabit to construct modern fighter Jets or Helicopters to go up into the Middle and High Umbra.


            This is a cool idea! I say go for it! Relics of Magical items could have outstanding potential, and if Wraiths in Spaaaaaace are a thing then why not this? The dreaming can have trapped human souls, and I frankly love the idea of using Fae gathering a horde of Wraiths and using their magic to give them blessing and curses in my games, like ignite them with perpetual flame like Ghostrider or angelic flaming swords.

            And Werewolf has the Lost Legion, a Legion of Wraiths blasted by the Maelstrom and lost in the Abyss. Being lost in some spirit lands has the incidental effect of sometimes making Wraiths into something Else, like spirits as many Dead mages learn, and we also have the Keremet in the Dreaming.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Asimar View Post
              Let's not forget the Yama Kings. The Thousand Hells are both in the Yin world (the underworld) and in the Yang world (the Middle Umbra). An entreprising wraith could go in one, them climb the Scarlet Path fo another Hell in the Middle Umbra and then... well, finding a way to escape, because frankly, I don't see any Yama King make it easy for a wraith to escape it's grasp.

              Also, I don't think Deathsight or many Arcanoi working as usual, if at all, in another umbra.
              This is a perfect example of the worlds overlapping! Perhaps though escaping into the spirit world from the underworld would start to make ghosts into goblins and demons, as even hell can do this to souls.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                I thought they only had territory in the Shadowlands only? Well anyway with that bit of information atleast its confirmed that Wraiths can ATLEAST go to other realms in the Low Umbra other than the Underworld. What about going to Battleground or Scar?
                The infamous relic nukes had something to do with it, I think. Per mention of The Thousand Hells, above, it otherwise tends to take extreme effort by powerful entities with access to a lot of excess power.

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                • #23
                  Its as easy as Transcending. I mean the transition from "Ancestor spirit" to "God" is a pretty common thing among cultures as they Developed I would think it would be a possibility for it SHOULD be a thing... hell even enough worship might force your transition...

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                  • #24
                    I realize this is a little thread necromancy here, as the last entry in this thread was some 11 months ago, so I apologize. My question is: what would happen if a wraith used some level of Inhabit on one of their fetters--an inanimate object (a favorite ring or watch or something)--and a mage or werewolf (but more likely a mage) took the fetter containing the wraith into one of the non-lower umbrae--or, for that matter, the dreaming or digital web? Setting aside the inherent batshittedness of this idea, is there some rule in Wr2e or Wr20 that would prevent this?

                    Lead on question: to the extent that they can be taken to other umbrae using this method, once they exit the object, what would the "Shroud" rating be (for purposes of using Arcanoi) in other umbrae? For instance, let's say a Euthanatos took a relic revolver into another umbra, and that that revolver is some Artificer's fetter, or, at a minimum, that the Artificer is attuned to the revolver. So what happens if the mage is standing in the middle of the spirit wilds, or in some mid-umbral realm (e.g., Dystopia, Midrealm, Hy-brasil, etc.), or in a horizon realm (e.g., pre-fall Horizon or Doissetep) and the wraith jumps out? What happens if the wraith tries to jump back into the revolver, but this time using Inhabit 3 (in order to "work" the firearm)? I ask because, per Wr20, the base difficulty to use that power is the local Shroud rating or (in the Tempest) 8. My assumption about the higher diff in the Tempest is that the power presupposes (as a default) that a Wraith would be trying to jump into something in the Skinlands, and that that would be more difficult in the Tempest than in the Shadowlands (when one would theoretically be abutting the Skindlands and therefore the Shroud). But what is the interaction if they're occupying the same plane as the object they want to inhabit, and it is a plane without a shroud?

                    I understand that this is all simply a series of hand waves as a ST (particularly given the fact that I'm running a Mage game,) but I'd be interested to know what rules (if any) I'm handwaving away. We're pretty veteran WoD folk and like to have in-character discussions about the metaphysics of things--I'm interested to know how those more knowledgeable than I about Wraith reckon these questions.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                      I realize this is a little thread necromancy here, as the last entry in this thread was some 11 months ago, so I apologize. My question is: what would happen if a wraith used some level of Inhabit on one of their fetters--an inanimate object (a favorite ring or watch or something)--and a mage or werewolf (but more likely a mage) took the fetter containing the wraith into one of the non-lower umbrae--or, for that matter, the dreaming or digital web? Setting aside the inherent batshittedness of this idea, is there some rule in Wr2e or Wr20 that would prevent this?
                      The Inhabiting wraith would probably be ejected from the object and sent back to the Shadowlands the moment it changes realms. Since all of the Shroud-crossing Arcanoi are specifically for crossing into the Skinlands, not into the other Otherworlds beyond the Skinlands and Underworld.

                      For instance, let's say a Euthanatos took a relic revolver into another umbra, and that that revolver is some Artificer's fetter
                      Minor note: relics cannot be Fetters or vice versa. Fetters are only items, places, or people that exist in the Skinlands. Relics are the memories of destroyed objects that fall into the Underworld. So if the Fetter was destroyed and becomes a relic, it stops being a Fetter.

                      I should also note in general: there are no official rules on what happens if an ephemeral entity like a wraith, spirit, or chimera crosses into an Otherworld that's not their home realm. So...no official rules on what happens if a wraith manages to make it into the Middle or High Umbra.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                        The Inhabiting wraith would probably be ejected from the object and sent back to the Shadowlands the moment it changes realms. Since all of the Shroud-crossing Arcanoi are specifically for crossing into the Skinlands, not into the other Otherworlds beyond the Skinlands and Underworld.
                        That was one of the two scenarios I envisioned.Since the rules appear silent on what would actually happen, it seems like the only two possibilities are either what you said, or that they would just get very tentatively pulled into whatever other realm by dint of being inside the thing/person when it crosses over. The question for me was whether the rules were written as they are (i.e., only covering skinlands scenarios and rules) because it is affirmatively impossible for an object or person with a wraith within it to carry the wraith to other umbrae, or because the issue would simply never come up barring such a rare set of circumstances within the ambit of a crossover with another gameline, that it would be unreasonable to expect the developers to write rules for what basically amounts to a black swan event.

                        Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                        Minor note: relics cannot be Fetters or vice versa. Fetters are only items, places, or people that exist in the Skinlands. Relics are the memories of destroyed objects that fall into the Underworld. So if the Fetter was destroyed and becomes a relic, it stops being a Fetter.
                        Well that's good to know. I appreciate the correction!

                        Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                        I should also note in general: there are no official rules on what happens if an ephemeral entity like a wraith, spirit, or chimera crosses into an Otherworld that's not their home realm. So...no official rules on what happens if a wraith manages to make it into the Middle or High Umbra.
                        I sort of gathered that from the thread above (and a handful of other threads,) but I wanted to make sure.


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