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  • True Obsidian and other "true" materials.

    I've seen these mentioned several times over, especially since the release of Book of Oblivion. True Oblivion, True Gold, True Emerald, True Turquoise, True Jade etc- these materials that seem to be the Dark Kingdom's counterparts to Stygian Steel but are only mentioned scarcely.

    I can't seem to find a system for these materials either, in terms of their creation or their actual mechanics (damage, difficulty for use, etc).

    My questions are;

    where can I find more info on these materials and items? Wr20 and Book of Oblivion seem to only briefly mention them; do older books go into more detail, if so, I can check those out. Even with the materials that are given a bit more detail (Like True Jade); actual mechanics/systems don't seem to be listed. Are they meant to be simply homebrewed?


    My second question is a little unrelated; but, most everything that wraiths deal with are made of corpus and can not manifest outside of the Underworld/Shadowlands, correct? Are there any items, materials, substances, etc that find their origin in the Underworld but are indeed not made of corpus? For instance, Stygian Steel being forced from ore of the Veinous Stair; could theoretically exist in the Skinlands as it's not corpus, correct? Is there anything (else) that can function that way?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by ChiefFirewater; 10-21-2019, 01:46 PM.

  • #2
    1. No, I think BoO was the first mention of any of these materials. In general, BoO was the first of any extensive write-ups on the Dark Kingdoms listed, since what was in the Wr20 corebook (at least from my understanding) was all that they had originally. As of right now, we believe that these substances are the region's equivalent of Stygian Steel. So mechanically, just treat it like that.

    2. In terms of taking Underworld items out of it, typically no, they can't exist in it for very long. Closest we have to doing that is the Embody Initiate 2 art Cache that can briefly have objects manifest in the Skinlands...but in the case of that art, it's only relics and soul-forged items. Artifacts and Moliated wraiths can't be targeted by this art though.

    Once again, if your character is determined to send Artifacts across the Skinlands, this is probably the kind of thing that would warrant being its own plot to run through, if not entering the realm of homebrewing Rating 6+ Arcanoi.

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    • #3
      I see. I'm new to wraith so I wasn't sure if these were mentioned in previous editions or other sourcebooks.

      In actuality, my character is a Mage who frequents the Underworlds, and has a particularly good relationship with Flint. I was trying to see if there was a way that I could justify getting an item from the Underworld (purely for RP/development purposes, fits the character's archetype).

      My friend who is the local authority on Wraiths essentially told me that soulforged items cannot exist in the skinlands without high-tier Arcanoi, Necromancy or other magick- but non-soulforged items can, like True Jade (and other True materials by relation). Essentially the premise is that these items are not forged with souls or corpus, and rather, other materials that can have a much deeper origin.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ChiefFirewater View Post
        I see. I'm new to wraith so I wasn't sure if these were mentioned in previous editions or other sourcebooks.
        My friend who is the local authority on Wraiths essentially told me that soulforged items cannot exist in the skinlands without high-tier Arcanoi, Necromancy or other magick- but non-soulforged items can, like True Jade (and other True materials by relation). Essentially the premise is that these items are not forged with souls or corpus, and rather, other materials that can have a much deeper origin.
        I understand your friend's logic, though one should keep in mind that all materials in the Underworld are, in one way or another, made of the stuff of memories and emotion. Memories and emotion generally cannot exist in physical form! That said, the reasoning your friend uses makes some kind of sense, so I say, go for it.

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        • #5
          Oh, is this strictly a Mage chronicle with no Wraith PCs involved?

          In that case...honestly, the ST has full power to just handwave away any of the details if they aren't chuffed about having Wraith's setting and mechanics nuances right. So if they say that it just is an object the mage can take back with them into Skinlands, it just does.

          Otherwise if we are trying to be accurate with Wraith's systems...yeah it specifically says only relics and soul-forged stuff. Anything else is plot device, rating 6+ Arcanoi, or help from the other WoD splats.

          (also from my understanding, there's surprisingly little of any official material when it comes to systems interaction between Mage and Wraith)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
            Oh, is this strictly a Mage chronicle with no Wraith PCs involved?
            Otherwise if we are trying to be accurate with Wraith's systems...yeah it specifically says only relics and soul-forged stuff. Anything else is plot device, rating 6+ Arcanoi, or help from the other WoD splats.
            I must have forgotten about part. Kind of rings a bell, though. Do you happen to know which section discusses that?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Callishka View Post

              I must have forgotten about part. Kind of rings a bell, though. Do you happen to know which section discusses that?
              From upthread:

              Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
              2. In terms of taking Underworld items out of it, typically no, they can't exist in it for very long. Closest we have to doing that is the Embody Initiate 2 art Cache that can briefly have objects manifest in the Skinlands...but in the case of that art, it's only relics and soul-forged items. Artifacts and Moliated wraiths can't be targeted by this art though.
              Wraith20 core, p. 160. The language used in that write-up is pretty explicit.

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              • #8
                Oops, I'm blind. Thanks.

                As an aside, I do like how valuable that makes Proctors.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Callishka View Post
                  Oops, I'm blind. Thanks.

                  As an aside, I do like how valuable that makes Proctors.
                  Oh yeah. In general, I do like how Initiate Arts, if you run them by RAW as something only Guildswraiths can learn, can provide services to the other factions, even the most conservative of Hierarchy factions. That they at least have *a* reason not to immediately raid them to get forged into furniture.

                  ----------------------------------------
                  Anyways, ChiefFirewater in terms of how a mage could reinforce an object from the Underworld so it can persist in the Skinlands...going by M20's Sphere entries, seems like the way to go is Matter 2/Spirit 3. Although obviously the main issue is how long you want that object to last, so making sure you dump successes into Duration is going to be something to watch for.

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                  • #10
                    Fair enough.

                    Are any of you familiar with the old 2nd Edition systems for True Jade? I don't have the book on hand, but what I've dug up suggests that True Jade comes in several colors with different innate abilities. My idea is that since the other True materials don't have given systems, that I'd just basically follow True Jade's call it xyz.

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                    • #11
                      The true materials function the same way as Stygian Steel in every way. They are just localized to the culture in question.


                      "The Mercy of Order is Justice"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChiefFirewater View Post
                        Fair enough.

                        Are any of you familiar with the old 2nd Edition systems for True Jade? I don't have the book on hand, but what I've dug up suggests that True Jade comes in several colors with different innate abilities. My idea is that since the other True materials don't have given systems, that I'd just basically follow True Jade's call it xyz.

                        If I remember correctly from the Jade Kingdom book, it says that Chinese people bury their relatives with "Jade" and thats where Yellow Springs gets it from. I don't how accurate this is in concerns with real life. Even with that in mind, Jade would be extremely rare. Worked jade by Way of the Artisan made into weapons do Aggrevated Damage instead of Lethal I believe.


                        Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                        • #13
                          Dark kingdom of Jade, and Dark kingdom of Jade adventures, these both cover the topics of True Jade, and White Jade, as for True Jade it is when a living person puts real jade in the coffin or buries it with the dead, this makes it move over to the shadowlands as a relic but its a little more then a relic, there is also an Arcanos that is used to help shape and empower both White and True Jade,


                          as for true obsidian this an any other True object, i would think comes in the same way as true jade, as it is just a cultural material that is harder then relic items, as True Jade does aggravated damage, once it is shaped into a weapon, and it is very expensive as it is worth a lot in that culture.

                          in my games we expanded the Jade arcanos to be a cultural art, that in each different dark kingdom has a version that applies to there true objects of choice and anyone who knows a version of that arcanos, "Way of the Artisan" can shape a true material but has an added difficulty of +1 or 2.

                          Last edited by DeadMan; 11-12-2019, 05:52 PM.

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