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  • Simple Question

    Why do wraiths hate vampires? Is it a fashion thing, like the have a problem with jewelry and cool capes?

    Seriously though I couldn’t find the answer in the W20 core so I figured I’d ask here.

  • #2
    Where are you getting the idea that wraiths hate vampires?

    That was not really my impression. On the other hand, we know that the Giovanni specialize in binding ghosts to their will, and since they are among the most proficient necromancers in the vampire world, it stands to reason that most ghosts would be wary of hanging around a Giovanni. Then there are the tremere, most of which have auspex, which they can use to find and experiment on ghosts.
    Last edited by Callishka; 11-12-2019, 10:00 PM.

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    • #3
      Aside from the case of the Giovanni and other such exploitative necromancers for whom the matter is self-explanatory...

      It's frankly common sense and human nature. All wraiths were once human and most had or have living humans that they care about. If you had verifiable proof of vampires, massive conspiracies of monsters that hunger for human blood, wouldn't you be frightened of them and want them gone?

      This is putting aside the significant minority of wraiths who would have been made by vampires due to their natures.

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      • #4
        Thanks guys. In VtM books it’s pretty clear ghosts hate vampires. Perhaps there is more of a separation between ghosts and wraiths than I thought?

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        • #5
          Before the Giovanni came to be defined as the vampires who have a monopoly on interacting with summoning and binding ghosts, the ghosts that a vampire was mostly likely to encounter were the ghosts of people the vampire had killed.

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          • #6
            Well, there is a rumor about Abel being the first wraith in the world, so to the restless dead "their Father killed ours". (If you think Caine and Abel are real persons, not a metaphor, then it seems reasonable)
            I think most wraiths don't know much about vampires at all, but when they meet one, they will probably dislike it.

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            • #7
              Most ghosts vampires and others in the skinlands encounter tend to be those that are super worked up about something - enough so that they cross the shroud and act up - and this includes ghosts who were murdered and are still mad about it. Since vampires frequently are killers, that type of ghost is likely to have a negative reaction. Added to this is that the average vampire actually seeking out ghosts is usually one of the Giovanni, who tend to be ruthless bullies, which also garners a negative reaction. On the other hand, it is entirely possible for a ghost and a vampire to have a nonhostile or even quasifriendly relationship. It is just sort of unusual and rare.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Everyone hates vampires. Humans hate vampires, mages hate vampires, werewolves hate vampires, changelings hate vampires, and vampires really hate vampires. Wraiths are just part of this pattern.

                Also, I imagine few wraiths have ever had a positive encounter with a vampire, between the Tremere, the Giovanni and the fact all vampires are just murderers.

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