No Insta-Death from Agg Overflow?

[tasti man LH]

Looking over the health rules of Wraith and comparing them across the other WoD splats and I...noticed something interesting.

In general, Wraith's health rules work a bit differently then the other splats. They have higher base health without need their powers or Merits, they don't suffer wound penalties, Incorporeal means Skinlands damage is trivial, etc.

But then there's aggravated overflow damage. Normally in the other WoD games, if a character's health track is filled and then overflowed with aggravated damage, the character dies permanently. Doesn't matter if you're a vampire, werewolf, changeling, etc. If you get hit with your splat's bane of choice too much, you're done. And in each section this is specifically called out as to what happens.

But in Wraith it...doesn't seem like that's the case. It's never mentioned at all that anything happens when it overflows with agg damage. Just that if their health track is filled with lethal damage, or suffers a point of lethal/agg damage while in the Wavering state, they get Harrowed.

So...am I reading this right? Do Wraiths not instantly die from aggravated damage overflow? They just get sent to a Harrowing? Because if so...that means wraiths have one helluva boon over the other splats.

I mean yeah, a Destruction Harrowing is no picnic, nor is risking the loss of permanent Corpus ...but wraiths still have a chance of coming back out alive. Where the other splats overflow on agg damage, then they're dead-dead.

[adambeyoncelowe]

Looking over the health rules of Wraith and comparing them across the other WoD splats and I...noticed something interesting.

In general, Wraith's health rules work a bit differently then the other splats. They have higher base health without need their powers or Merits, they don't suffer wound penalties, Incorporeal means Skinlands damage is trivial, etc.

But then there's aggravated overflow damage. Normally in the other WoD games, if a character's health track is filled and then overflowed with aggravated damage, the character dies permanently. Doesn't matter if you're a vampire, werewolf, changeling, etc. If you get hit with your splat's bane of choice too much, you're done. And in each section this is specifically called out as to what happens.

But in Wraith it...doesn't seem like that's the case. It's never mentioned at all that anything happens when it overflows with agg damage. Just that if their health track is filled with lethal damage, or suffers a point of lethal/agg damage while in the Wavering state, they get Harrowed.

So...am I reading this right? Do Wraiths not instantly die from aggravated damage overflow? They just get sent to a Harrowing? Because if so...that means wraiths have one helluva boon over the other splats.

I mean yeah, a Destruction Harrowing is no picnic, nor is risking the loss of permanent Corpus ...but wraiths still have a chance of coming back out alive. Where the other splats overflow on agg damage, then they're dead-dead.

Your interpretation is right because THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD! You can't insta-kill the already-killed. They don't 'come back out alive' because they're already dead.

Wraiths are supposed to be really hardy. They're enduring Passions and memories, anchored by Fetters and Willpower. If you want to destroy one, you have to slowly wear them away.

There's no point comparing them to other splats. They're not supposed to be comparable because they exist on their own planes of existence, and largely only interact with each other (and their Fetters).

Besides, all the other critters (well, most of them) get to become wraiths afterwards if there's sufficient IC need for it (ST's call), which really means living characters are better because they get an actual life to lose, followed by those 10 dots of corpus. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Callishka]

Yep. You kill a Wraith by convincing it (often, repeatedly) that it should not knit itself back to existence after being torn to pieces. Once they stop being hungry for life, they're toast.

[tasti man LH]

Yep. You kill a Wraith by convincing it (often, repeatedly) that it should not knit itself back to existence after being torn to pieces. Once they stop being hungry for life, they're toast.

Which even then, that's a very very involved process that could take a long time to do.

Much longer then "stake a vampire then set 'em on fire", "pump the werewolf full of silver bullets", "stab the fae guy with a cold iron shank", etc

[DeadMan]

take all agg, hit a destruction harrowing, and fail that, then its over, end of story. it really depends on the ST, and how they want to run Destruction harrowings, as they can be the final death quickly and very challenging to get out of, and some i have played with say it always cost you a permanent trait, be it WP or Corpus, even if you survive it.

[Callishka]

Which even then, that's a very very involved process that could take a long time to do.

Much longer then "stake a vampire then set 'em on fire", "pump the werewolf full of silver bullets", "stab the fae guy with a cold iron shank", etc

Yes indeed. One of my favorite things about book of Oblivion is how slow, almost lovingly patient Oblivion can be to claim a spectre. The fact that some spectres even chill out for years at the well of the void, carving the walls, gives me chills. Gotta be ready to take the plunge!

[Matt the Bruins fan]

It certainly seems to fit the folklore better than modeling Wraiths after tangible monster opponents. In ghost stories you don't whack the ghost with a fireplace poker until it stops showing up; you find out what issue is keeping it around as a ghost and resolve that to lay it to rest. Or, y'know, bring in a priest to bless your house and make it GTFO.

[Eldagusto]

take all agg, hit a destruction harrowing, and fail that, then its over, end of story. it really depends on the ST, and how they want to run Destruction harrowings, as they can be the final death quickly and very challenging to get out of, and some i have played with say it always cost you a permanent trait, be it WP or Corpus, even if you survive it.

This is how I remember it.

[Eldagusto]

It certainly seems to fit the folklore better than modeling Wraiths after tangible monster opponents. In ghost stories you don't whack the ghost with a fireplace poker until it stops showing up; you find out what issue is keeping it around as a ghost and resolve that to lay it to rest. Or, y'know, bring in a priest to bless your house and make it GTFO.

One could interpret bringing a holy man is bringing the agg.

[DeadMan]

Moving from the Doppelgänger caste to the Nephwrack caste requires the lose of all its fetters, in the dark reflections book its talks about stripping the last of there fetters away so they can join the Naphwracks caste