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Strange that Proctors never got a Guildbook

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  • Strange that Proctors never got a Guildbook

    Considering that before the nerf of Embody with WTO20 (if you even go by the Arcanoi in that sourcebook) that it literally allowed you to appear across the Shroud as a lifelike solidified Corpus at level 5 of the Arcanoi. Its even noted that Embody was especially favored by the Hierarchy still, even with the post-"ban" of all the Guilds. Its probably the single most important discipline to recontact loved ones or physically fight Quick real estate agents trying to rezone your Haunt
    Last edited by Shakanaka; 01-02-2020, 09:04 AM.


    Jade Kingdom Warrior

  • #2
    I mean. Half the Guilds never got Guildbooks, so...

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    • #3
      I think it was a mistake that Wraith made the Guildbooks the Wraith splat that would get their own books. The Guilds were never supposed to be a big institution especially compared to others. I think combining all the Guilds into one book, like the Legions and Renegades had, would have been better. It would have forced only the best material to be published and addressed all the Guilds.

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      • #4
        In hindsight, I think it'd been better to have Legion books and then three Guild books - Working Guilds, Grand Guilds, and Criminal Guilds - that went into blue collar, upper class/politico, and underworld culture of the dead before getting into their four or five guilds proper. And then later a Banned Guilds one probably.


        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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        • #5
          I agree with No One of Consequence. Trying to make Guildbooks with all 16 Arcanoi was always unfeasible in the first place. You can tell they realized this when they started putting two Guilds in one book at a time. Wraith is the most criminally underused gameline in oWoD, luckily some of us still care about it lol. I think the main reason why it had little appeal before of the whole Shadow thing that had to be played by other players. I'd always make it were I had to ST a Wraith game I'd just memorize everyone's Shadow with a quick flash card and NPC it. Makes sessions much more faster. Also Guilds ARE the most important institutions in Stygia and its attached Necropoli in the Shadowlands, hence why some are more "tolerated" than others despite the Dictum Mortiuum.
          Last edited by Shakanaka; 01-03-2020, 12:44 AM.


          Jade Kingdom Warrior

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          • #6
            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
            In hindsight, I think it'd been better to have Legion books and then three Guild books - Working Guilds, Grand Guilds, and Criminal Guilds - that went into blue collar, upper class/politico, and underworld culture of the dead before getting into their four or five guilds proper. And then later a Banned Guilds one probably.
            That's a great idea, and I speak as one who loves the guilds and would have welcomed a book for each guild.

            I do think they chose the guilds they did create splatbooks on well. Pardoners and Puppeteers are two guilds from opposite ends of the social acceptability spectrum (excluding forbidden guilds), and same goes for Spooks and Oracles. Sandmen suggests what the Chantuers book would be like, etc

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            • #7
              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
              In hindsight, I think it'd been better to have Legion books and then three Guild books - Working Guilds, Grand Guilds, and Criminal Guilds - that went into blue collar, upper class/politico, and underworld culture of the dead before getting into their four or five guilds proper. And then later a Banned Guilds one probably.
              Trouble with that is that the Legions only really got moved into splat-space as the original run was winding down (Book of Legions and Great War). It seems a go-to in retrospect, but at the time not so much. The Guilds were the closest things to splats at hand, and so the Guilds got the splatbooks.


              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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              • #8
                i would love to see a kicker starter to put all the Guilds into one big book, with all the arts that got dropped on the cutting room floor, it has seemed to me and mine troupe that Wraith 20, tried to just get at least 2 for the main 16, and gave up on all the other arts and even the Jade and other cultural Arts. there is so much more out there and now it seems that if its not in the 20th book, that they aren't real anymore.

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                • #9
                  Problem is with W20 is that they drastically nerfed the Arcanoi to Oblivion... Pun intended. They then justified it saying something along the lines of "Ghosts shouldn't be having these OP powers" just cuz.. I have no idea why would they do that. If they were gonna nerf the Arcanoi, atleast ensure you make new abilities for Arcanoi leveled past 6+... W20 wouldn't been the best 20 collection if they just would've add in new abilities past 6+ without touching the 2nd edition Arcanoi.

                  Its just bizarre since the modus operandi of all 20 edition collects were just to complie all the relevant information of the books over the years. Also speaking of this very Arcanoi of the thread topic, they completely destroyed the Embody Arcanoi. Why the hell would the last ability would be to take someone into the Shadowlands? The whole point of Embody was to MANIFEST outside of it.. Nerfing Wraiths just 'cuz because they didn't fit in line with regular "Ghost" stories (when Werewolves who are usually solitary killers at full moon are now Tribal spirit-cosmic defenders, Vampires descend from Caine when Vampires had nothing to do with Abrahamic mythology, etc.) was a bad idea in hindsight.


                  Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                  • #10
                    This thread seems to have strayed into "why did the arcanoi get nerfed?"

                    Ignoring that question, I will respond to your question about the highest level embody art. Embody already has an art to allow a ghost to manifest perfectly in the skinlands, so I'm not sure why you're disappointed.

                    As for why would embody allow a ghost to bring someone into the skinlands? My guess is that that ability is established in ghost lore. Even in ancient stories, people are occasionally invited or dragged into the underworld for a spell to talk to the ghosts. Embody seems like the most well suited arcanos to represent that trope.

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                    • #11
                      ummm.., you do realize Embody still has the “physically materialize in the Skinlands as indistinguishable from the living” power, right? It’s Materialize, the 5 dot Common power. Harrow the Mortal Flesh which does the reverse is the Initiate (i.e. a Proctor exclusive secret) power.


                      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                      • #12
                        That said, because I miss Elysium, I made Harrow the Mortal Flesh work a bit differently. It makes a mortal able to solidly interact with the Skinlands and Shadowlands simultaneously. Elysium becomes a 5 dot Phantasm Initiate power which lets the Sandman remove a living soul from their sleeping body as a temporary Wraith in the Underworld.


                        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                        • #13
                          I’m my games we still use the old arts and the new ones, the old arts are alt arts or ancient arts, even if a new art replaced it, since there are enough differences between them, also it seems like the 20th book is trying to lock us into only two arts, and I think that is retarded, it’s just more of how half assed the final product is, the 20th Ed should really be the 25th Ed with how late it was

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