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What are the minimum requirements for repairing relics?

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  • What are the minimum requirements for repairing relics?

    I'm the type of wraith nerd who goes diving into his library whenever I'm not sure how some tiny nuance of Underworld life works, but this seemingly simple question is vexing me. I hope yall can help.

    What are the minimum requirements--in terms of Abilities, Arcanoi, and/or ghostly crafts--for a wraith to be able to repair or modify a relic?
    • I'm aware soulforging is used to create artifacts from souls.
    • I'm aware relicforging does the same with relics at a lesser efficiency.
    • I'm aware that relics are unitary objects with no real internal parts (unless some Alchemist is mucking around in their insides), though if my memory serves, wraiths without certain Flux arts can repair relics...?)
    My issue is that I'm not sure if a simple, lowly wraith untrained in the above illustrious techniques can repair a relic. If a wraith has, say, the Crafts Ability and no other advantage vis-a-vie repair, can they repair a damaged relic?

  • #2
    I'd assume any person dead or not untrained in repairing certain objects will have an tough time figuring how to get said thing a working state. Scratching that out the way though, using other relic materials and breaking them off to tack on the main relic that needs repairing make sense. Wraiths do that all the time when a building in the Skinland collapses and pops up in the Shadowlands after- take all the useful stuff out from the building for other purposes. So using Craft makes sense for repairing or modifying anything having to do with relics.


    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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    • #3
      I've found more quotes from the core book that seem to contradict each other. I sympathize with the enormous complexities of developing a remastered 500-page game book, so I'm not complaining when I bring this topic up. It's simply that that I wish to know whether I'm missing something here, or whether there's a way of creatively interpreting all of this to keep as close to the RAW as possible. More specifically, I would like to know the comparitive benefits of the Crafts Abiity, versus the Flux Art of Non-Euclidean Mechanics, versus using Pathos to repair.

      Here are the relevant quotes.

      Regarding normal repair:

      "There aren’t many repair shops in the Shadowlands, so wraiths must usually do the job themselves. Depending on the specialty involved, Crafts can be used to repair anything from pottery to automobile engines (for computers, use Technology)." (Wr20 323)
      "Simple repairs take at least a few turns to complete, while more complex repairs are extended actions that last 10 minutes for each success needed...On a botch, your character may simply waste time and a new part, or even make the problem worse." (Wr20 323)
      "A wraith may repair a relic or Artifact by spending Pathos instead." (Wr20 323)
      So we know that Crafts can be used to repair, but that any Wraith can replace that skill with Pathos. So, either spend a valuable emotional resource or use your skillz + some spare parts. Makes sense, so far.

      Regarding relic vehicle damage:

      "A relic vehicle that passes through a solid object suffers the same fate —however, since inanimate objects do not heal, any damage suffered is permanent unless repaired. Bear in mind that characters can spend Pathos to repair a relic vehicle." (Wr20 318)
      So we have confirmation that vehicles may require repair, and that Pathos can accomplish that task. Moving on.

      Regarding the 2-dot Initiate Flux Art, Non-Euclidean Mechanics:

      "As the Underworld echoes of destroyed things, relics are unitary objects to most wraiths. Disassembling a relic Mustang with relic tools results in its destruction, not an oil and Pathos change...System: To repair a damaged relic, the Alchemist works on it for one hour. The player spends Corpus equal to the relic’s value and rolls Dexterity + Flux (difficulty 6, increasing to 8 if the wraith lacks appropriate tools). With success, the relic is repaired. Each additional success reduces the working time by 10 minutes (minimum 10 minutes)." (Wr20 169)
      Suddenly, we're told that attempting to repair relics the old-fashioned way will merely destroy it. Wait, what? So what's the point of the Repair Ability? Is this simply two writer's ideas clashing?

      Secondly, using the art for simple repairs costs "Corpus equal to the relic’s value". That's a considerable price, considering that normal repair costs nothing but the materials you require; then again, this Flux Art may replace any necessary spare parts, so that may be one of its advantages. And, granted, it also allows you to markedly improve a relic. But still, if I had Non-Euclidean Mechanics and wanted to repair my car, would I really want to spend all that corpus when I could just fix it non-magically? It doesn't appear that the Art saves much time, either.

      Bottom line: I'm not sure how to interpret all this. Does Repair make half of Non-Euclidean Mechanics redundant? Does Non-Euclidean Mechanics's text really tell us that normal repairs are not possible, which conflicts with the rules for the normal Repair feat?

      I'd appreciate your take on this.

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      • #4
        There are alot of contradictory things across WW booklines almost all the time. When you come across a significant conflict in consistency, I'd suggest just going with the option you want to implement the most. In this situation I'd just rely on the Craft skill as normal. Maybe you'd need Flux to upgrade a relic to something more stronger, but I wouldn't worry about it that much.


        Jade Kingdom Warrior

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
          There are alot of contradictory things across WW booklines almost all the time. When you come across a significant conflict in consistency, I'd suggest just going with the option you want to implement the most. In this situation I'd just rely on the Craft skill as normal. Maybe you'd need Flux to upgrade a relic to something more stronger, but I wouldn't worry about it that much.
          Hmm this does seem like a rather obvious flub and miscommunication though. But good advice.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
            There are alot of contradictory things across WW booklines almost all the time. When you come across a significant conflict in consistency, I'd suggest just going with the option you want to implement the most. In this situation I'd just rely on the Craft skill as normal. Maybe you'd need Flux to upgrade a relic to something more stronger, but I wouldn't worry about it that much.
            OK, then it's as I figured. Thanks.

            Flux already allows one to improve relics, so that's nice. I think I'd lower the corpus requirement on the Flux Art, specify that corpus cost replaces any needed spare parts, and have it take half the time of normal repairs.

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