Pandemonium in the Shadowlands

[Andreas Rayne]

From the write-up in Wr20 Pandemonium can be used in the Skinlands, Tempest and Labyrinth with no mention of the Shadowlands (or a corresponding difficulty).

Back in Second Edition Tempus Fugit specifically states that it can also be used in the Shadowlands (dif 7).
The conspicuous absence of mention of the Shadowlands elsewhere in Pandemonium and the highlighting of that one particular art always made me think the Arcanos by and large was unusable in the Shadowlands.

Fast forward to Wr20 even the Shadowland use of Tempus Fugit is missing from the text.

Is Pandemonium unusable in the Shadowlands as of Wr20 or am I missing something?

[Shakanaka]

Why wouldn't Pandemonium be unusable in the Shadowlands? It's literally the staple Arcanoi to haunt mortals with who are beyond in the Skinlands. If that wasn't the case then there goes half the plot points that can be done in Wraith. Also even if Wr20 (for whatever reason) doesn't specifically mention Tempus Fugit can be used (strange things like that are reason I only use Wr20 for only a few things), it doesn't mean the rest of the abilities within Pandemonium can't be used.

[Andreas Rayne]

Why wouldn't Pandemonium be unusable in the Shadowlands? It's literally the staple Arcanoi to haunt mortals with who are beyond in the Skinlands. If that wasn't the case then there goes half the plot points that can be done in Wraith. Also even if Wr20 (for whatever reason) doesn't specifically mention Tempus Fugit can be used (strange things like that are reason I only use Wr20 for only a few things), it doesn't mean the rest of the abilities within Pandemonium can't be used.

Sorry, I'm a little confused by your reply.

Yes, Pandemonium is used to haunt mortals in the Skinlands and that is it's primary function.
I'm not disputing its use in the Skinlands.
Use in the Skinlands is right there under systems with a difficulty of the local Shroud rating.
It can also be used in the Tempest (dif 6) and Labyrinth (dif 6)
No mention or difficulty is given for the Shadowlands.
I'm questioning whether it can be used in the Shadowlands or not.

In regards to Tempus Fugit in 2nd Edition, the highlighting of the fact that it "also works in the Shadowlands" gives the impression that the other arts do not.

[Shakanaka]

Huh, you confused me a sec too. Pandemonium is an Arcanoi you project FROM the Shadowlands to the Skinlands, so you already answered your own question- it is useable because the Shadowlands is where the ability is staged from. The difficulty is the local Shroud level depending on the area your in. For the other parts of the Arcanoi that are simply power-ups (like Tempus Fugit mentioned here) or status effects, just do a regular diff 6.

[Andreas Rayne]

Huh, you confused me a sec too. Pandemonium is an Arcanoi you project FROM the Shadowlands to the Skinlands, so you already answered your own question- it is useable because the Shadowlands is where the ability is staged from. The difficulty is the local Shroud level depending on the area your in. For the other parts of the Arcanoi that are simply power-ups (like Tempus Fugit mentioned here), just do a regular diff 6.

I think it was the Tempus Fugit description in 2nd Edition that got me confused.
That inclusion of "also works in the Shadowlands" made it seem that the other arts didn't.

I had it in my head that these Skinlands manifestations had no corresponding Shadowlands counterpart, with all effects existing purely on one side of the Shroud.

[tasti man LH]

As I mentioned on FB...yeah I think at best them not mentioning a Difficulty for Shadowlands is just an oversight errata didn't catch and that's it.

[DeadMan]

when using Pandemonium, whenever you use it to affect the Skinlands, it is also affecting the Shadowlands, as the effects bleed over, I have in the past allowed it to be used only in one or the other, (Skin/Shadow) but for the most part, the creationist arts are in both sides of the Shroud. This is one of my favorites Arcanoi. Being one of the only Arcanoi that is pure chaos, most of the arts are only shaped by the user then allowed to grow into what it will be by the Wylding's influence.

[Andreas Rayne]

As I mentioned on FB...yeah I think at best them not mentioning a Difficulty for Shadowlands is just an oversight errata didn't catch and that's it.

That's thanks twice over I owe you then

[Andreas Rayne]

when using Pandemonium, whenever you use it to affect the Skinlands, it is also affecting the Shadowlands, as the effects bleed over, I have in the past allowed it to be used only in one or the other, (Skin/Shadow) but for the most part, the creationist arts are in both sides of the Shroud. This is one of my favorites Arcanoi. Being one of the only Arcanoi that is pure chaos, most of the arts are only shaped by the user then allowed to grow into what it will be by the Wylding's influence.

Many thanks once again for clearing that up for me.