Nhudri's Embrace and Harrowings

[Daraexus]

I will just copy here my question to the deadguy, just in case someone knows if the answer I am looking for appears in any Wraith supplement:


A Wraith chained with a Nhudri's embrace can suffer a Harrowing? If the answer is not, Will the harrowing will be on hold until he's free / the triggering condition has been somehow reversed?

[Nazfool]

Yes, a wraith bound by Nhudri’s Embrace can still go through a Harrowing. The artifact just makes Arcanoi really difficult to use. A chained character has to roll Willpower (difficulty 8 – 9, if trying to use Argos) and score at least two successes to attempt to use their ghostly mojo.

There’s nothing stopping unruly prisoners from pummeling themselves into a Harrowing to escape the forges. It’s not a tactic I would enthusiastically endorse, but it’s better than becoming Samuel Haight’s neighbor.

[Daraexus]

Do you know if there's some reference supporting that? It seems that going to a harrowing is a cheap tactic to escape from the chains (and particularly nasty shadows can use that to free its psyches using things like Devil's Dare).

[Nazfool]

That's why no self-respecting Reaper, Slaver, or Doomslayer *just* uses Nhudri's Embrace. That artifact prevents Arcanoi use; good old-fashioned Soulsteel chains keep prisoners under control so they can't try escaping via a Harrowing. Or in, in the case of Spectres, send themselves to Oblivion out of spite so you can't get your bounty.

[Daraexus]

I always thought Nhudri's Embrace were a type of Soulsteel chains. After all, in the Hierarchy Book, there's an example of someone imprisoned by chains with a description really similar to those of the Nhudri's Embrace...

[Nazfool]

Personally, I envision them as Sousteel manacles - essentially big and archaic-looking handcuffs - the primary purpose of which is to keep the dead from using their powers. It really doesn’t matter unless it becomes an issue during play. Why do you ask? Do you have a player that’s abusing some game mechanic? Do you think your ST is pulling a fast one on you?

[Daraexus]

Well, sort of. The shadow of a chained player wanted to use devil's dare to drain all the willpower of his psyche, and send him to a Harrowing. The wraith is indeed, chained in soulsteel manacles (Which I refer as Nhudri's embrace somtimes).

I know somehow that these kind of chains prevent the wraith from escaping in that way but I wasn't sure where did I read that exactly. Or why I had such idea.

[Nazfool]

Alright.
A few thoughts. Some of these might be pertinent.
Some (possibly all) might not be.

Was the Devil’s Dare even possible?
“It must be within the wraith’s capabilities to perform…”(Wraith: The Oblivion Second Edition, p. 173).
If it’s impossible for the character to incorporate the dare into the scene, I’d be inclined to rule it as an invalid use of the Thorn.

Did the Shadowguide (not the Shadow) do it so the character could get out of the chains? If so, I’d call the Shadowguide out for being a meta-gaming prick. Maybe with more tact than I just used.

If you need a system to prevent this in the future, maybe add a stiff mobility penalty to anyone bound in Nhudri’s Embrace. It would certainly fit thematically since these things are supposed to epic uber-chains.

[Daraexus]

Was the Devil’s Dare even possible?

It is, and it's nothing preposterous, a simple action not unlike the one described on the corebook. (Stepping and spitting on a relic the Wraith just have on his hand, but does not belong to him).

Did the Shadowguide (not the Shadow) do it so the character could get out of the chains? If so, I’d call the Shadowguide out for being a meta-gaming prick.

This is a little more trickier. The Shadowguide as the Shadow is thinking about using a Harrowing for its own benefit (weaking the psyche) and freeing him for the chains, to "gain his trust". It's consistent with the shadow nature and it's not a cheap attempt to game the system.

About the penalty, I am using one. However, I want to know if draining all the psyche's willpower while in chains will result in said wraith going on a Harrowing. My position (still) is "no", so, when the psyche weakens, perhaps a ominous wind will blow, but no nihil will open, at least not until the wraith is chained.

[Nazfool]

How are you going to handle the delayed Harrowing? Wait for the Embrace to come off? Will it be immediate? Will other characters have some sense of warning?

Also, would you allow this to happen if the wraith lost all his Corpus levels? Could players put on an Embrace and, essentially, be immune to damage (at the cost of not being able to use their Arcanoi)?

[Daraexus]

That's an interesting question. In "theory" they cannot enter a Harrowing while chained... but with all his corpus lost, I sincerely don't know.

Aggravated cumulative damage? A Destructive Harrowing Nihil so strong that their hands are literally ripped from the manacles? Certainly that's a question I have as well :/

[Nazfool]

What if you added a tiny extra power to it?

Nhudri’s Embarce (NE) already restricts the use of powers so maybe it can have additional metaphysical constricting effects. What if, in addition to its normal effects, NE prevents a bound wraith from losing/spending her last point of Willpower?

It solves your problem, gives you the house rule you wanted, and doesn’t set a precedent for power-gaming weirdness in future sessions.

Thoughts?

[Ramnesis]

Make it so a Wraith has to commit a point of willpower to the manacles just to be able to act with them on. When the rest of the pool drops to zero, the point is reflexively withdrawn; the Wraith gets the point back but can no longer do anything.

[adambeyoncelowe]

I would probably rule that Nhudri's Embrace either prevents the loss of Pathos, Willpower or Corpus, or that it prevents these falling below one point each.

[nothing]

Remember also, Nhudri's Embrace is used in conjunction with soulsteel manacles - and that the Wraith is still chained by them when coming out of (or even going into) a Harrowing. Just because someone else slapped a Relic on you doesn't mean that Relic disappears when you emerge from your existential crisis-play. Floating bound and helpless in the Tempest is possibly an even worse situation than the one the character was trying to escape from.

Cheers!