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Why some Wraiths Dark Passions seem nobler then their Passions?

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  • Why some Wraiths Dark Passions seem nobler then their Passions?

    glanced through a guild book or two...

    WHY is it one or two Wraiths have Dark passions that seem nobler then their passions?

    just seems odd... to me...



  • #2
    Dark Passions are the things we might not want to admit we feel. If a wraith is in denial about their love for someone, for instance, that love might provide a source of Angst (hence, be a Dark Passion).

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    • #3
      The Shadow is all about leading you down to Oblivion. You can easily get there by following some very noble impulses. The Road to Hell and all that....

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      • #4
        Dark Passions can have good intentions behind them; the Shadow Player's Guide points out in its intro fiction that the Shadow can be motivated by a desire to help just twisted. That's the kind of thinking that has you refuse to leave your house ever again for fear of getting hurt, or sabotaging your relationships so that you can never be broken up with, but there's still a warped sense of logic to it.

        Then there's just fundamentally shitty people, who could have awful Passions that they feel no shame for whatsoever. Remember; the Shadow isn't evil, it's just your repressed, self-destructive side.


        Just call me Lex.

        Female pronouns for me, please.

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        • #5
          Per some other responses: it is a common misperception (or, more accurately, a common two-dimensional perspective) that the Shadow is "evil": it often has evil qualities and may, in fact, be evil, but that that isn't always the case, and is an overly-simplistic view on the subject. Some Dark Passions *can* be "noble" or "positive", but the ultimate end-result is the (at least potential) self-destruction of the Wraith, itself. (A Shadow can have a Dark Passion to "heroically save others from dire jeopardy", which sounds all nice and everything, and may even result in other beings being rescued from "x" situations... but the underlying motivation *behind* that Dark Passion is the putting in jeopardy of the Wraith, *itself*, which is the by-product of helping others who are in highly dangerous situations. Most Dark Passions won't, of course, be that seemingly noble on the surface and can be "read" for the dark/destructive/negative things that they are; in some cases, though, a discerning perception is required to note the difference between a *truly* noble Passion and an ultimately self-destructive Dark Passion....


          I have been around here for waaaayyyy too fucking long...

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          • #6
            oh one dark passion I saw was "Reveal charlataans and frauds" from a wraith that WAS a fraud in life... ideas why?


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
              oh one dark passion I saw was "Reveal charlataans and frauds" from a wraith that WAS a fraud in life... ideas why?
              Self-loathing is a very valid core emotion for a Dark Passion. The reminder that this drive provides of who the wraith was in life seems quite a viable source of Angst.

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              • #8
                It also implies a kind of masochism: the Shadow wants to make the wraith vulnerable. It wants to make her exposed, so that she can be punished. The Shadow might thoroughly enjoy that, and perhaps not because the wraith hates herself, but perhaps more because she has learned to see love and attention in the abuse of others.

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                • #9
                  There's a famous line:

                  Originally posted by Groucho Marx
                  I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member
                  Said in jest, but drop the humor for a moment and you have one of the classic Shadow motivations.


                  Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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                  • #10
                    just thought ... any ideas on things a shadow can do in Catharisis, especialy the Parent... mr adventure I know will put himself in dire danger... but the parent hard to see what he'd do...

                    Wanting to help make catharis distinct from "Frenzy"

                    or for the spectres... Ideas what psyche will do in catharasis... nurturer, I think will probaly beg PC wraiths not to hate the spectre... but agent or saint?
                    Last edited by Prince of the Night; 11-23-2015, 11:18 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                      glanced through a guild book or two...

                      WHY is it one or two Wraiths have Dark passions that seem nobler then their passions?

                      just seems odd... to me...
                      Because a Passion is something that give a wraith a sense of "satisfaction" (oversemplification), while the Dark Passion is something that:
                      -negate a passion in a mephistophelian / Freudian way
                      -relate to the habits of a wraith, filtering it with some particular feeling (guilt, common sense, even conscience)
                      -destroy a wraith ambitions, plans and projects

                      so, if a wraith is a shitty person (for example a serial killer of grannies and dogs' raper) his Passion would probably be the worst.
                      Contrarywise, the Dark Passion of his Shadow would be "higher" and "nobler". But the point is that the Oblivion is not Evil, Oblivion is nothingness. Thus, negating a Wraith's Passions, habits and ambitions, the Shadow bring the Wraith further near the nothingness, the Oblivion and his own demise.




                      ====================================
                      "Worst English-language User" 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 running for the 2017
                      [Unofficial Clanbook] Nagaraja: the Masquerade


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                        just thought ... any ideas on things a shadow can do in Catharisis, especialy the Parent... mr adventure I know will put himself in dire danger... but the parent hard to see what he'd do...

                        Wanting to help make catharis distinct from "Frenzy"

                        or for the spectres... Ideas what psyche will do in catharasis... nurturer, I think will probaly beg PC wraiths not to hate the spectre... but agent or saint?
                        The Parent will insulate the psyche from everyone else, keep him a shut-in, so they can baby them whilst poking out exactly where they are going wrong, make them feel guilty for going out and living without the Shadow's parental advice... It's a tough one to run with Catharsis and I think Dark Passions can help a lot in exactly how The Parent works. Usually the Parent does whatever it can to alienate the psyche from others, so it's going to do whatever it can to destroy any friendships or relationships your psyche has, to make them feel alone, like noone is there for them except the Shadow, wanting them to be shut up in their haunt with only them to baby them. It usually justifies itself later by explaining that any who react badly whilst in control is not a true friend to the psyche to begin with and they deserve better... It's a really toxic 'apron strings' kind of Shadow. If that helps at all.

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