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  • Wr20 Risen preview

    Risen preview is out for backers. What does everyone think? Let's discuss.

    Personally, I was hoping for some numbers in the write-up, as I'm still curious about how Wr20 will handle the Celerity/Potence/Fortitude/Obfuscate problem. Maybe it'll be something simple, like "spend a point of Pathos to gain an extra turn/add 1 to Strength/soak 1 damage/hide in shadows."

    Cheers!


    If you don't use an Oxford comma, I feel bad for you, son,
    'Cuz I got ninety-nine problems, but clarity ain't one.

  • #2
    I also am curious on disciplines...

    Or maybe they'll create Unique "Risen arcanoi" To solve the issue.

    OH. a curious question

    How to justify high APP Risen, ideas?


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    • #3
      Yeah, I was hoping to see how Risen-learned Disciplines are handled.

      Prince of the Night: I think a high Appearance Risen could be justified with the whole "You're Not a Zombie" thing. Pretty sure the text even mentions that a Risen "unrots".

      The original sourcebook touches on it, but the preview really paints the Risen as being a very temporary state of being. 'Better to burn out than fade away' sorta thing. I wonder what kind of House Rules (if any) troupes will need for crossover games.


      This is what happens when an Abyssal Exalted ends up in H.o.L.
      (Also known as "Derpwraith" and "PretentiousFontsGuy
      ").

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      • #4
        or... if A circle has one risen member, how to keep them involved.


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        • #5
          Physical improvements could borrow a page form KotE's expenditure of Demon Chi (Temporary Angst, in this case) to gain a number of similar benefits (improved might and extra actions, for example). If you draw the cap at the same Trait, it would limit temporary Angst expenditures to Stamina per turn. Naturally, you also have to cajole your Shadow into helping in order to accomplish this.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
            Physical improvements could borrow a page form KotE's expenditure of Demon Chi (Temporary Angst, in this case) to gain a number of similar benefits (improved might and extra actions, for example). If you draw the cap at the same Trait, it would limit temporary Angst expenditures to Stamina per turn. Naturally, you also have to cajole your Shadow into helping in order to accomplish this.
            Unlike KotE, though, it's beneficial for a Risen to spend all their Angst. Losing all your Demon Chi isn't great in KotE. You'd need to balance the benefit gained by creating some kind of risk to the Psyche. Shadow dice already replicates boosting stats.

            If they're going to be inspired by KotE, I think they'd be better off drawing from Black Wind, Iron Mountain and the other Demon Arts.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

              Unlike KotE, though, it's beneficial for a Risen to spend all their Angst. Losing all your Demon Chi isn't great in KotE. You'd need to balance the benefit gained by creating some kind of risk to the Psyche. Shadow dice already replicates boosting stats.
              It already carries the potential to make the Psyche go berserk. As an additional consideration, the Shadow might recover more easily from that expenditure than others, possibly with interest.

              If they're going to be inspired by KotE, I think they'd be better off drawing from Black Wind, Iron Mountain and the other Demon Arts.
              But they have both... the system above is just what they call upon if they don't have any other way to spend Demon Chi.

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              • #8
                Iron Mountain is widely believed to be broken, and I find it difficult to argue with that accusation...

                then again, I've long wondered if Risen were a kind Psuedo kuei-jin. because of their Disciplines, showing spiritual evolution in the west, so I'd be willing to explore the idea.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                  Iron Mountain is widely believed to be broken, and I find it difficult to argue with that accusation...
                  How and why? Unless you mean underpowered post-Revised, since they tacked on a Demon Chi surcharge every time you wanted to use what wasn't altogether very different from Fortitude.

                  then again, I've long wondered if Risen were a kind Psuedo kuei-jin. because of their Disciplines, showing spiritual evolution in the west, so I'd be willing to explore the idea.
                  No. Risen still have their Psyche and Shadow bound together. Hungry Dead had theirs split apart, and effectively had their Shadow harrowed before it escaped and came back. The two bond back together, but they become extremely different from a wraith who operates as Risen.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    It already carries the potential to make the Psyche go berserk. As an additional consideration, the Shadow might recover more easily from that expenditure than others, possibly with interest.

                    But they have both... the system above is just what they call upon if they don't have any other way to spend Demon Chi.
                    TBH, I think either using the Disciplines as is or turning them into Arcanoi is better than a Demon Chi 'blood buff'-style system. Having chi buffs and Shadow dice seems superfluous. The Disciplines do something slightly different to either, and Obfuscate isn't really covered by chi buffing anyway. Creating new Arcanoi is obviously the most elegant solution, though.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

                      TBH, I think either using the Disciplines as is or turning them into Arcanoi is better than a Demon Chi 'blood buff'-style system. Having chi buffs and Shadow dice seems superfluous. The Disciplines do something slightly different to either, and Obfuscate isn't really covered by chi buffing anyway. Creating new Arcanoi is obviously the most elegant solution, though.
                      Elegant and potentially very intriguing.

                      "Skinlands" Arcanoi that can only be used if the wraith has manifested its presence in the world of the living... Meaning the user would need to already have access to some way to do so (being a Risen, having appropriate levels of Embody, Puppetry or Inhabit). The the Arcanos would affect the "vessel" used (the body of the Risen, the ectoplasmic shell for Embody, the possessed person for Puppetry, possessed thing for Inhabit). So "Fortitude" might have different effects depending on which manifestation method was being used - like vampire Fortitude for a Risen and/or a consort using Puppetry, but something like a "tougher" projection for Embody and a difficult to destroy Inhabited item.... Similarly for Potence and Celerity. Imagine the wraith that uses Inhabit to take over a chipper-shredder and has the Fortitude and Potence analogue... It would be fun to use something like Outrage at the same time. Very Evil Dead flying chainsaws...

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                      • #12
                        ideas on how to keep A circle together with some Risen some not, or how to keep a non risen Wraith involved in a mixed group with other supernaturals.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                          ideas on how to keep A circle together with some Risen some not, or how to keep a non risen Wraith involved in a mixed group with other supernaturals.
                          To be honest, it's an unlikely situation. I've always felt Risen work best in one-on-one games, since their aims are so specific. Think The Crow. It's one man righting a wrong. Circlemates don't really work, unless they're tied together via their back story.

                          I suppose a bunch of wraiths could agree to help each other with their unfinished business in whatever way possible. One could become Risen and get help across the Shroud from his circlemates in exchange for helping with their Skinlands problems.

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