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Angst, Specters and Usury

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  • Angst, Specters and Usury

    Can Usury be used to steal Angst from Specters? Does it become Pathos?

  • #2
    Note: Referencing WtO Second, pp. 160-161
    To this day, I hate the Pathos/Angst/Composure balancing that occurs when dealing with the cost conversions and effects of different Arcanoi.
    I’ve experimented with different ways to make ghostjuice more homogenized between the Restless and the Shadoweaten (mechanically speaking), with varying results depending on the session.
    Rather than thinking about the fluff, strip things down to their base mechanics and go from there. If we’re talking about Transfer, try replacing the word “Pathos” with “Juicestat” and go from there.
    Would it make sense metaphysically? Who cares.
    Would it be a fair game-mechanic balance? If players are good with it and the ST is comfortable, go with it.

    I would rule, YES, a Wraith stealing juice from a Spectre will convert it to a Wraith-compatible juice. If you want a fluff explanation, handwave something like “spectre Psyches filter the energy as a subtle act of defiance.”

    If you hate yourself, you can try making homebrew Arcanoi that deal with these specific situations. That would make the most sense, but after beating my head with homebrews of Usury, Castigate, and Larceny to dope out weird circumstances, I’m happy with HRing existing Arcanoi.

    <signature> something witty </signature>


    • #3
      I'm inclined to say no to the first question, and definitely say no to the second. Angst and Pathos aren't the same thing or even two sides of the same coin, so you really can't change one into the other or handle them the same way. Castigate is the Arcanoi for handling Angst, and even Spectres have their own special abilities for dealing with the stuff (Contaminate and Larceny as I recall). But even if you want to make Usury capable of pulling the throbbing, nihilistic impulses from a Spectre, it should be exactly as dangerous a feat as it sounds, and should flood the Usurer's own Shadow with a banquet of Angst.

      Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink


      • #4
        A castigate / usury tempered art seems the way to go, then. thanks for the replies.


        • #5
          in one of my old games, we asked a similar question, and came up with this, if a Wraith gains enough Angst to become a Doppelganger he keeps what Arcani he had, but most would be useless to him, so over the aeons wouldn't the Shadow-Eaten come up with there own Shadow Arts to the Major Arcani. So a Usury art that deals with Angst is an easy idea.

          Also Angst & Pathos i see as 2 sides to the same coin, in Dark reflection and other books, a Spectre that is using a standard Arcani, has to pay Angst instead of Pathos and gains Composure instead of Angst.

          We also allowed the PC's Shadows to learn these Shadow arts, if their Psyche's had the arcani, (with a trait max of Level 4) mostly being one level lower then the Psyches'. treating these as Thorns.