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World War Two Relics

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  • World War Two Relics

    One of the odd effects of the fourth level of the Arcanoi of Inhabit is that, if wraiths have claimed an inanimate object, they are capable of transforming the object into a relic. During World War Two, hundreds of thousands of military aircraft were lost, hundreds of thousands of tanks were lost, and thousands of military ships were lost. I would imagine that rogue wraiths used their Inhabit Arcanoi to transform the majority of the destroyed military vehicles into relics because of the sheer utility of the vehicles of World War Two. Despite the effects of the Fifth Great Maelstrom, I would imagine that there would have been tens of thousands of relic military aircraft, tens of thousand of relic tanks, and hundreds of relic military ships would have survived to the contemporary era. I was wondering where everyone thinks that the relic military vehicles are located.

  • #2
    Not all relics are created via Inhabit, many occur naturally and in a situation like the World Wars, a lot of destroyed military hardware is going to become relics.

    As to where they are, most would be in the hands of Stygia and its Legions, the Dark Kingdom of Jade and whatever Renegade and Heretic groups that managed to get their hands on it. They just don't use them all the time due to their value and the cost of fueling and arming them.


    Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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    • #3
      Yes, you either need relic fuel and ammunition (difficult to get) or pathos. I am wondering how much damage, armor, and health levels a WW II heavy tank would have. I am thinking that the standard round from an M4 would do around 30 dice of lethal damage (halving soak) and that the armor would be around 30 soak (ignoring any damage below 15 dice). It would probably have thirty health levels as well. Destroyers would probably have twice as much damage, armor, and health levels while battleships would probably have three times as much damage, armor, and health levels.

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      • #4
        I think most planes and vehicles would not become relics. There is not enough emotional attachment to them. The sheer number of them would mean a certain amount would cross over just based on the percentages. Plus many of them would have become lost immediately once the Fifth Great Maelstrom happened.

        Naval ships however would seem to be able to generate a lot of pathos. Lots of sailors serving on them with love of the ship, and if they get sunk often there is a lot of attachment to them. They would also be huge enough to survive the maelstroms.

        The legendary naval losses of the war probably all joined the Stygian fleet. The Arizona, the Bismarck, and the Yamato (maybe if we discount that it may be part of another Dark Kingdom) are all serving together in death.

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        • #5
          I do not know. Stygia does not seem like much of a naval power. I imagine that they are serving various renegades, fighting the good fight against the autocracy of Stygia.

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          • #6
            How many byways can fit even a small naval ship? How many fewer could fit an aircraft carrier. Even if we suppose that these ships could navigate the Tempest, they would not be as fast or safe as the byways Stygia already controls. Now they could be useful on the Shadowlands oceans (as I recall drowned Wraiths and Relics can actually swim/float on those waves) but I'm not sure what they provide other than alternate means of travel and light patrol.

            Also, don't relics have a lifespan based on emotional investment? Would Inhabit created artifact planes even last 70 years?


            Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
              I think most planes and vehicles would not become relics. There is not enough emotional attachment to them. The sheer number of them would mean a certain amount would cross over just based on the percentages. Plus many of them would have become lost immediately once the Fifth Great Maelstrom happened.

              Naval ships however would seem to be able to generate a lot of pathos. Lots of sailors serving on them with love of the ship, and if they get sunk often there is a lot of attachment to them. They would also be huge enough to survive the maelstroms.

              The legendary naval losses of the war probably all joined the Stygian fleet. The Arizona, the Bismarck, and the Yamato (maybe if we discount that it may be part of another Dark Kingdom) are all serving together in death.
              To quote Wraith: the Great War:

              There are quite a few tanks in the Underworld; tanks are the receptacles for a lot of love, frustration, fear and anger. Although many of them are without ammunition, or have had their weapons replaced by Shadowlands improvisations, they and their crews are still out there. During the Fourth Great Maelstrom, the many armored vehicles in the Shadowlands are often in the thick of the fighting.
              During times of peace, yeah plenty of vehicles wouldn't likely become relics but in a time of war, where emotions are running high, infusing the vehicles with the emotion that will ensure they become relics and the machines are being destroyed far more frequently, with their crews, there were be an influx of relic vehicles and hardware. And I don't just mean there would be more because more are dying but the actual ratio of destroyed vehicles becoming relics vs those that don't would rise for a time.

              As for warships, those that were sunk in the Atlantic would become part of Stygia's fleet but as shown in Ends of Empire, the Dark Kingdom of Jade gained many that were lost in the Pacific. Of course many of their crews were replaced with the Yellow Springs' sailors, particularly those from WWII as they don't like Americans and Europeans anymore than they do the Japanese.

              As for traversing the Byways, yes some Byways are too small for those ships and would limit their ability to move. However the Dark Kingdoms do not span the globe and they don't need to be able to patrol distant parts of the Underworld. Hell it would cost a lot to fuel a ship for such a journey. But that doesn't matter because they don't need to. They only need to patrol their territories.

              But there are ways around that too. In Ends of Empire, the Dark Kingdom of Jade launches a massive, sudden invasion of the Dark Kingdom of Iron. They hit necropoli all over Stygia, bringing various warships straight into them. This was done through the use of special talismans that created artificial Byways for the purpose of rapidly transporting their troops into Stygia. However their rush to produce the vast numbers needed for the invasion resulted in flaws in a sizable chunk of them which caused many to fail. One battleship invading London was torn in two and exploded because its talisman failed halfway through the journey.


              Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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              • #8
                As far as I can tell from the rules, there are relics in existence that predate the written word (Charon's little boat, for example). Relics have to be important to someone, but that someone is usually someone who died and became a Wraith. Wraith passion seems to be extend the life of a relic indefinitely and, as long as it is used and appreciated, it will continue to exist.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                  As far as I can tell from the rules, there are relics in existence that predate the written word (Charon's little boat, for example). Relics have to be important to someone, but that someone is usually someone who died and became a Wraith. Wraith passion seems to be extend the life of a relic indefinitely and, as long as it is used and appreciated, it will continue to exist.
                  Is Charon's boat a relic? Or is it like the boats of the Ferrymen, crafted from the reeds from within the Underworld?


                  Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A tank or warship or plane in war is the thing keeping you alive. It's the thing that makes you matter to the war effort. There is probably nothing more important to the tank crew than the tank, the ship to its crew or the plane to its pilots/crew. B-52s were given talismanic identities and names. And so on.

                    There is probably nothing more likely (or really just as likely) to become a Relic than a dead child's teddy bear or a murdered newlywed's wedding ring.

                    But their utility is going to be questionable. The amount of Pathos to make them move is going to high. Then refitting them for functional weapons. It will take the massive resources located at the hub of the distribution network to make happen. Or else some cool Arcanoi to use direct "wraith power", like that power from later on in Orpheus that let wraiths become literal "monster trucks" and tool around the desert that was the Shadowlands.

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                    • #11
                      Perhaps alternative arts developed by Renegades?

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