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is orpheus supposed to be canon?

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  • is orpheus supposed to be canon?

    from the perspective of wraith and the greater metaplot of the world of darkness in general i mean

    retcons many things(stormwall wraith abilities malfeans etc) and none of the things in there have ever appeared in any other book. granted this could be because orpheus came so late

    butevery other gameline sort of treats the underworld as normal even with the sixth maelstorm.

  • #2
    When it was first released it was very unclear but yeah Orpheus is canon.


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    • #3
      As I understand it, it's semi-canon. A kind of 'what if' or alternate reality scenario. It simplifies and changes things for its own purposes, so can't be considered 100% canonical for Wraith games, but it's presented as a possible post-6GM setting for the game. You'd have to house rule a lot or fill in the gaps, though.

      For instance, you could say the awakening of Grandma has splintered souls in a way more akin to KotE. Thus, spectres and psyches possess their own separate forms. This splitting of souls has presumably also changed the way Arcanoi work. Or, perhaps, the wrecking of wraith society means the powers learned are just bastardised, disparate effects, rather than the developed, well mapped routes of the Arcanoi.

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      • #4
        Plus the whole cosmography and geography of the Skinlands vs. the Shadowlands vs. the Tempest, etc. has substantially changed. Changed so much that they completely change the relationship between them.

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        • #5
          Orpheus takes place after Wraith ends, but whether or not it connects to the wider WoD is iffy.


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          • #6
            Given Wr20 is supposed to include Orpheus material, it seems like the intent is for it to be canon. Though it might see some adjustments to make it work better in that regard in the update.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              Given Wr20 is supposed to include Orpheus material, it seems like the intent is for it to be canon. Though it might see some adjustments to make it work better in that regard in the update.
              I think it will be presented as an option. Just like M20 has a range of Future Fates. But, from what I understand, Rich D is making Orpheus backwards compatible with Wraith, rather than the other way around. Which means retcons may happen.

              I do hope the Orpheus section also fills in the details of how the Underworld and its mechanics change so much between the two games.

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              • #8
                AIUI, we're getting the Orpheus Group pre-Sixth Great Maelstrom - how they operate in the standard Wraith setting. Dunno if we'll get a projection of how things go down post-6GM.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by marin View Post
                  AIUI, we're getting the Orpheus Group pre-Sixth Great Maelstrom - how they operate in the standard Wraith setting. Dunno if we'll get a projection of how things go down post-6GM.
                  Oh, you're right, actually. It's just been so long since the Kickstarter, my mind clearly invented the idea we'd be getting something more. This is actually better, I think, because of how different the two games are. You don't need Horrors and the like if you have Wr20.

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                  • #10
                    Could Orpheus people potentially learn Arcanoi?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marin View Post
                      AIUI, we're getting the Orpheus Group pre-Sixth Great Maelstrom - how they operate in the standard Wraith setting. Dunno if we'll get a projection of how things go down post-6GM.
                      I think it's been mentioned that Wr20 will have material for running a post-6GM chronicle.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                        Could Orpheus people potentially learn Arcanoi?
                        Maybe. It'd be easier than porting over Horrors, I guess.

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                        • #13
                          Yea, Horrors are problematic, especially with the Vitality cost. I would imagine that Spite would turn to Angst.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                            Yea, Horrors are problematic, especially with the Vitality cost. I would imagine that Spite would turn to Angst.
                            I mean, you could just rule that they can spend Corpus or Pathos equally. But it would probably make more sense to compare each Horror to existing Arcanoi and base the cost off those. The problem is more that the Horrors often simulate Arcanoi, but in a simplified or tweaked format, so there's some redundancy there. Also, it's a matter of space. If you're listing all the Arcanoi and then having to list all the Horrors too, that might eat up a lot of space that Wraith players might prefer was spent on WTO material instead of Orpheus material.

                            My gut feeling is that the rules will probably translate Orpheus into Wraith terms, perhaps with some quick and dirty crossover details (e.g., Orpheus agents, being living beings, not having access to a Pathos pool and so having to use Corpus instead to power Arcanoi, or vice versa, with Pathos acting as their psychic flesh for lack of a ghostly presence).

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