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What We Know So Far: Deviant the Renegades

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  • well the marvel cinematics version

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    • A few more answers before I crash tonight:

      Power-stealing: This has always been one of those effects that can cause a lot of problems in a game. I'm making an effort to include one, but as with all things, whether it survives depends on playtester feedback.

      Balancing Scars and Variations: A single Scar can "support" multiple Variations of lower Magnitude. However, it isn't as simple as "Total Magnitude of Variations = Total Magnitude of Scars." I'm going to hold back on being more specific than that at this time, though.

      The core isn't going to discuss supernatural/alien beings that make Deviants or the rules for them doing so. The game's antagonists are humans, human conspiracies, and other Remade. That said, there's plenty of material and potential to work with in a future supplement. It seems ripe for a Storytellers Guide chapter.

      "Gradual Divergence" isn't addressed in the core. Not saying its impossible. In fact, I can imagine it being the equivalent of metal fatigue that affects the soul. One day, it finally cracks.

      Size 10 just like that (and at Magnitude 3, in the current draft).


      Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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      • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
        A few more answers before I crash tonight:

        Power-stealing: This has always been one of those effects that can cause a lot of problems in a game. I'm making an effort to include one, but as with all things, whether it survives depends on playtester feedback.

        Balancing Scars and Variations: A single Scar can "support" multiple Variations of lower Magnitude. However, it isn't as simple as "Total Magnitude of Variations = Total Magnitude of Scars." I'm going to hold back on being more specific than that at this time, though.

        The core isn't going to discuss supernatural/alien beings that make Deviants or the rules for them doing so. The game's antagonists are humans, human conspiracies, and other Remade. That said, there's plenty of material and potential to work with in a future supplement. It seems ripe for a Storytellers Guide chapter.

        "Gradual Divergence" isn't addressed in the core. Not saying its impossible. In fact, I can imagine it being the equivalent of metal fatigue that affects the soul. One day, it finally cracks.

        Size 10 just like that (and at Magnitude 3, in the current draft).
        power stealing could be great. I hope it makes it (perhaps with limits and big scar)

        glad to hear about balance of scars not simply be having tons of scars along with variations

        hmm, I really thought it was said it could happen gradually.

        I'm gonna love that size variation. is it ok if I ask if it was a coactive variation? It really sounds mutant, but then again I dont exactly understand what coactive is

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        • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
          The core isn't going to discuss supernatural/alien beings that make Deviants or the rules for them doing so. The game's antagonists are humans, human conspiracies, and other Remade. That said, there's plenty of material and potential to work with in a future supplement. It seems ripe for a Storytellers Guide chapter.
          But maybe mark in Deviant core small frame about possibility of using other supernatural creatures as progenitors for Remade? Cause we will have all the 'problems' like where with Constructs not mentioned in first drafts of Promethean: The Created 2E. Frame in corebook solved that those options are in main game, they just will be presented in later source books.


          My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
            I'm gonna love that size variation. is it ok if I ask if it was a coactive variation? It really sounds mutant, but then again I dont exactly understand what coactive is
            Sister Laura was a Coactive. Gigantic is a Universal Variation, as are about half of all the Variations in the core.


            Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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            • I'm getting a strong urge to run a Misfits of Science game.

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              • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
                Size 10 just like that (and at Magnitude 3, in the current draft).
                While being Magnitude 3 does not necessarily mean that there are two higher levels of Gigantic, the possibility of there being two forms BIGGER than Size 10 makes me happy

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                • it really makes me think that while generally weaker than most templates, they have powers that definitely make them creatures to fear

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                  • Where can I find a complete rundown of Deviant's content?

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                    • Originally posted by Extant Reality View Post
                      Where can I find a complete rundown of Deviant's content?
                      Post 1 on page 1 of this thread got updated over the last few days to include everything found or shared on this thread and from the Onyx Path podcast last week.

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                      • Originally posted by Robert D View Post
                        Post 1 on page 1 of this thread got updated over the last few days to include everything found or shared on this thread and from the Onyx Path podcast last week.
                        Oh! Thank you, Robert D.

                        I went over the first post of this thread and I gotta say, it's lookin' pretty good. It's got all the right pro-Genius self-transformative vibes I like and it also got a self-made Changeling vibe too. Actually that is a good character hook, some idiot finds a leftover Arcadian realm and inadvertently turns himself in a simulacrum of the Lost. Hehehe.
                        Last edited by Extant Reality; 03-03-2019, 08:24 PM.

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                        • Eric, could you explain Coactive a little more? It’s confusing especially since supernatural creators will be held off for a supplement. “Of two worlds” is vague, but I’m interested in the idea of a character who can interact with ephemeral creatures or, maybe, travel into other worlds, such as the Shadow, Underworld, or custom realms.

                          Does any or all of that fall under Coactive?

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                          • Originally posted by reseru View Post
                            Eric, could you explain Coactive a little more? It’s confusing especially since supernatural creators will be held off for a supplement. “Of two worlds” is vague, but I’m interested in the idea of a character who can interact with ephemeral creatures or, maybe, travel into other worlds, such as the Shadow, Underworld, or custom realms.

                            Does any or all of that fall under Coactive?
                            There is a Coactive Variation that lets the Deviant interact with a class of otherworldly being (spirits, fae, ghosts, etc) in various ways. Like time travel, outright world-hopping is outside of Deviant's scope. Conspiracies made up of ordinary people are not much of a threat to someone who can hole up in the Shadow, after all.

                            Another Coactive Variation makes the Remade highly resistant to the powers of a certain class of supernatural being (vampires, mages, werewolves, etc.), and at high Magnitude, she can turn these powers against those who attempt to use them on her.

                            Chance encounters with the supernatural can produce Coactives, but so can intentional contact with occult byproducts (the ashes of a vampire destroyed by sunlight, for example, or exposure to the energies of a Verge/Avernian Gate/Infrastructure/etc. under the right circumstances). Nor is it necessarily a form of energy that is covered by the other game lines. A meteorite that gives off a form of hitherto-unknown radiation that infuses those exposed to it in a way that gives them soul-breaking special abilities (instead of, you know, radiation sickness or cancer). In any case, the process of creating a Deviant is never clean and safe process. Conspiracies who learn the trick of it might be able to achieve an "assembly line Divergence," complete with choosing the victim's initial Scars and Variations, but their methods are still crude, and more subjects die on the operating table (or soon thereafter) than become Remade. In the world of occult sciences, Progenitors are 19th century doctors trying to cure ailments with leeches and enemas, not modern day surgeons. You'll note that none of these examples involve a supernatural Progenitor. After all, why would an acclaimed brain surgeon take an interest in something as obviously fake as E.S.P.?

                            (Caution: Mostly thinking aloud ahead, so take it with a grain of salt): Among supernatural beings who dabble in manipulating or empowering human servants/allies, creating one of the Broken is the sort of thing more likely to happen when an actually useful, stable process goes bad. Why would you want a servant with a cracked soul whose slavish devotion to you could turn into an unrelenting enmity the first time she thinks you betrayed her, when you could have a ghoul or Proximus? You wouldn't, would you? Except sometimes the Divergence produces a Deviant who is capable of something that even the Wise/Unchained/etc. didn't realize was possible and have reason to covet (or fear). He's a largely ordinary human (Scars and cracked soul aside), but he knows the sympathetic/real/true name of everyone he meets (think of the possibilities if your enemies are mages!). Or she always arrives at the moment you need her most, even if neither of you knew when that moment might be. Or he can see the future with such clarity that as long as you stick to the original plan, a prophesized event will unfold precisely as he predicted. All of these are (high-Magnitude) Coactive Variations, and all of them are the sorts of abilities that might tempt even supernatural creatures to experiment with the Divergence - like respected brain surgeons who became obsessed with studying E.S.P. after a fumble with a scalpel granted a patient telepathic powers. All Deviants have to contend with conspiracies of ordinary humans attempting to tether them in order to gain access to their powers, but Coactive Variations are much more likely to put a Remade on a collision course with one or more kinds of supernatural being (whether as an ally, a pawn, or a weapon a conspiracy wishes to use against them). The core isn't going to flesh that out much (this isn't an out-of-the-box crossover game like Hunter or Beast), but Coactive Variations lay a foundation for a chronicle that features other supernatural beings as allies, antagonists, or forces of nature. We'll address that in greater detail in a future supplement, but it's something that is already in my mind when I think about this Clade.

                            Does that help?


                            Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                            • The human torch is coactive. Electro is coactive. the frikken Hulk is coactive

                              Buffy is coactive (she’s powered by demonic energy)


                              Dave Brookshaw

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                              • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
                                There is a Coactive Variation that lets the Deviant interact with a class of otherworldly being (spirits, fae, ghosts, etc) in various ways. Like time travel, outright world-hopping is outside of Deviant's scope. Conspiracies made up of ordinary people are not much of a threat to someone who can hole up in the Shadow, after all.

                                ...

                                The core isn't going to flesh that out much (this isn't an out-of-the-box crossover game like Hunter or Beast)...
                                Yeah, thank you so much. I suppose what I had really wanted to know was how much the game can support or interact with occult forces like ghosts, spirits, or magic because, while Buffy is an example Deviant, it seems the overwhelming majority of source media is more mad science than strange occult workings.

                                So having example Variations that interact with supernatural forces or be resistant to them, and Remade that might be Broken by exposure to occult energies, or Conspiracies might up of rogue mages or whatever is what I was interested in. The character I began imagining is an amateur blood mage who ended up channeling rather dark powers and Broke herself, and so I'm thinking Coactive is definitely her thing.

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