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What We Know So Far: Deviant the Renegades

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  • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
    That sounds Coactive to me, but again, it depends on the result. Was the transformation such that the Deviant wound up wielding powers typically attributed to that deity by drawing on his spiritual connection to the entity? Especially if many of his Variations are typical of that Clade? Coactive. If not? Possibly another Clade.
    What level of Magnitude would you give to a variation allowed the Deviant bring a soul back from the Underworld? and whats sample Scars could be associated with it..

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    • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post

      No. You can't apply a Deviation that would decrease Magnitude below 1 or increase it above 5.
      Would it also be safe to assume that things are set up in such a way that, for example, the Relentless Variation Scar could not end up with a secondary Scar that was already at Magnitude 5 that was entangled to an Overt Variation?

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      • Nicolas Milioni: Deviant doesn't include the ephemeral entities rules in its core, so an Orpheus-style jaunt into the Underworld isn't likely. If you're talking about resurrecting the dead, though, that's Magnitude 5 (albeit with limits). As to the question about Scars, virtually any Scar can be entangled with any Variation, as long as the Variation's Magnitude is equal to or less than the Magnitude of the Scar. So a Magnitude 5 Variation is going to entangle with only the most severe Scars.

        Minty: It would be safe to assume that, yes.

        Seriously, folks, I can't tell you how excited I am for the Kickstarter to begin. Manuscript previews will answer so many of your questions and much more thoroughly than I can do here.

        *goes back to writing up proposed Kickstarter stretch goal rewards*


        Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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        • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
          Nicolas Milioni: Deviant doesn't include the ephemeral entities rules in its core, so an Orpheus-style jaunt into the Underworld isn't likely. If you're talking about resurrecting the dead, though, that's Magnitude 5 (albeit with limits). As to the question about Scars, virtually any Scar can be entangled with any Variation, as long as the Variation's Magnitude is equal to or less than the Magnitude of the Scar. So a Magnitude 5 Variation is going to entangle with only the most severe Scars.

          Minty: It would be safe to assume that, yes.

          Seriously, folks, I can't tell you how excited I am for the Kickstarter to begin. Manuscript previews will answer so many of your questions and much more thoroughly than I can do here.

          *goes back to writing up proposed Kickstarter stretch goal rewards*
          I've been very excited for this ks too!

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          • A thought: While it makes sense from a gameplay perspective, from an in-universe perspective how/why is it exactly that being loyal to a conspiracy or not changes which of Loyalty or Conviction you want higher?

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            • Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              A thought: While it makes sense from a gameplay perspective, from an in-universe perspective how/why is it exactly that being loyal to a conspiracy or not changes which of Loyalty or Conviction you want higher?
              Perhaps its a matter of which is psychologically most challenging to adhere too. While Devoted to a Conspiracy, it is constantly around you, reinforcing its ties to you, so Loyalty is a simple, easy and not as satisfying an anchor. While a Renegade, it is easy to hate, easy to blame and strike at the source of your pain, but to set aside that anger is the greater challenge, the more difficult choice, and the most rewarding.
              Last edited by Robert D; 08-07-2019, 11:09 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post

                Conspirators are the most common Conviction Touchstones among Renegades, but Remade can find plenty of other objects for their rage. It need not even be anyone associated with the Divergence. It can be the dirty cop who has been shaking down the Broken's neighborhood, or the asshole ex who has been stalking the Deviant's Loyalty Touchstone, or that bully from high school who *really* needs to get what he deserves, or those fools at the university who laughed at his outlandish theories. If the Storyteller wants to bring in antagonists from other gamelines (or just monsters of the week), these can also become Conviction Touchstones.
                Is it common to change Conviction touchstones often, or is it easy to do so at least? It depends of the Renegade I suppose, but if you just kill the stalker ex-boyfriend then what do you rage against next?

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                • Originally posted by reseru View Post
                  Is it common to change Conviction touchstones often, or is it easy to do so at least? It depends of the Renegade I suppose, but if you just kill the stalker ex-boyfriend then what do you rage against next?
                  I believe the Devs said earlier that you get a new Conviction fairly soon after killing the last one. That means if you go on a rampage, you could potentially gatling several in quick succession.

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                  • I wonder if there’s a downside to that, then; other than any narrative consequences of everyone thinking you’re a murderer, including the cops.

                    On the other hand you’re just as much in a moral dilemma if you deliberately keep the Conviction touchstone alive but constantly make their life miserable and suffering.

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                    • Originally posted by reseru View Post
                      Is it common to change Conviction touchstones often, or is it easy to do so at least? It depends of the Renegade I suppose, but if you just kill the stalker ex-boyfriend then what do you rage against next?
                      Deviants can have 5 Touchstones at a time. If you have an "empty" slot, then you can choose a new Touchstone (of either type) once per chapter. The new Touchstone starts out Wavering, meaning it doesn't provide the full benefits of a Touchstone. To affirm a Wavering Touchstone, you have to take some action in its service that would count as fulfilling it, at which point it is no longer Wavering. Touchstones can also become Wavering by acting contrary to the Touchstone or by failing to act in its service (Faltering).

                      Although a Merit can expand the maximum number of Touchstones slightly, the cap is there for two reasons. First, more than that makes it hard for players and STs to keep track of them and keep them in focus - much the same reason why characters in other lines can't have an unlimited number of Aspirations. Second, Touchstones provide significant mechanical benefits - Beats, Willpower, and resistance to supernatural control - so the ability to select an unlimited number of them has the potential to get out of control. I felt that left two options - place a hard limit the number of Touchstones, or impose an Experiences cost on new Touchstones. Of those choices, the latter interacted badly with the Sanctity of Merits rule (either violating it ourtright or making the threat of losing Touchstones in-play a paper tiger instead of the existential threat it's meant to be). The former was always going to be arbitrary, but it did a better job reinforcing the game's themes around Touchstones, and it was simpler at the table (no one can set up an infinite Experience-generating engine by buying Touchstones to earn more beats to buy more Touchstones).

                      Simple question. Long answer.

                      Regarding the in-world explanation for Conviction/Loyalty in Renegades/Devoted, there isn't yet an "official" reason (Robert D.'s seems workable, though), but it would make for a good exploration in a Devoted handbook or a Players Guide.


                      Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                      • Matthew Dawkins asks for Deviant questions.


                        Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                        • Ok guys,the ks will happen once August wraps up. 3 weeks guys,3 weeks

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                          • So close yet so far!

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                            • 'After August wraps up', Rich says specifically, so sometime in September; could be first week, but it'll probably depend on how things shake out.


                              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                              • The earlier the better

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