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Do Supernaturals Get Willpower When Sleeping?

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  • Taidragon
    started a topic Do Supernaturals Get Willpower When Sleeping?

    Do Supernaturals Get Willpower When Sleeping?

    For the longest time I presumed that supernaturals gained a willpower if they slept. However, the group I'm with claim otherwise, save for Mages because they're more or less human. This is a Demon game, which just compounds the issue. I'm just...really, really confused.

  • Tessie
    replied
    That would be true for angels, but demons are no longer ephemeral. In fact there are more differences between angels and demons than it is between angels and other ephemeral entities.

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  • Elythia
    replied
    Originally posted by Diggs View Post
    Demon is not a stand-alone book, so it uses the Chronicles of Darkness book for rules which states "a character regains one point of spent Willpower for each full night's sleep she gets." Unlike Vampires, Demons sleep so there you go. I think any 2e book would use that rule unless the book addresses it.
    The book also says that ephemeral beings are different and regain one Willpower per day. In my opinion this means spending a day with or without sleep doesn't matter for them.

    Chronicles of Darkness, Page: 127
    Willpower: [...] In addition to the Willpower-gaining methods described above, all ephemeral beings regain 1 spent Willpower per day.
    Last edited by Elythia; 02-18-2017, 08:37 AM.

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  • TGUEIROS
    replied
    Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post

    Well my Mask and Dirge for my current game are Spy and Survivor respectively. In our last session my character was sent to steal a book from the Ordo, but he ended up getting in a fight with a ghoul; when he won it was apparent that the ghoul saw his face, and so he killed the ghoul to get rid of a witness; he then proceeded to get the book and get out. I got one willpower point back after that.
    Note the guidelines for Mask and Dirge are explicit in that the sample actions are just that, samples.

    "Each includes a brief description, and sample actions that could recover Willpower for each."

    Dirge;

    "When committing terrible, damning acts in defense of his personal identity, he regains all his spent Willpower points."

    You murdered someone because they saw your face, and the Ordo knowing that you were the one to steal their book would put a target on your back. So to preserve your hide you committed a terrible act. That is full Willpower from Survivor.

    Of course how that murder weights on your character is to be taken into consideration. If he is an habitual murderer, I, as a ST, wouldn't let it be a recovery condition. But if he is a cat burglar, deep undercover nonviolent spy, suave con-man type, that should mean something to him.

    He could've tried to bribe the ghoul, make him a double agent, change his memories, intimidate him, kidnap and bond him or whatever else. But the surest way to be safe was to kill him. And him being safe is his Dirge. So he committed a terrible act in name of that.

    The thing with Mask and Dirge is that you have to engage the story through those lens. When confronted with a demand (like "steal me that book") you have to ask yourself how to engage your Anchors.

    A Survivor should contemplate his options, like sneak in to steal the book or become drinking buddies with that Ghoul and just learn what is in the book, and give that information to your superiors. Consciously avoiding the risk for a lesser reward (you didn't complete the task as asked, but got some intel) in this case would have hit both Spy and Survivor 1 point recoveries.

    As a Spy, discovering how the Ordo keeps the book safe, like patrol schedule, who keeps security, for how long the book is going to stay in such a place alarms and such, counst as a uncovering secrets, even multiple ones, depending on how drawn out and important the scenes are to the story. Choosing to only try to steal it friday, even knowing that the book might be gone thursday night, because fridays there is only one Ghoul there instead of the habitual Gangrel and his pack of ghouled K9s, could count as Surviror recovery, lessening your risk despite the fact the reward may be in jeopardy (that is if failure is not even more dangerous to you).

    If instead you chose to say "fuck these boot licking sorry excuse for Carthians" and skip town, instead of risking being captured by the Ordo, while believing the Carthians don't pose a threat to you, would net you full recovery from Survivor.

    If you managed to get the book and it contained info like "So and So had to diablerize this many Ventrue to develop this new Voivode Scale" now you get full recovery from Spy.

    If you look for intel and options, measuring risks and taking the safe route when interacting with situations you will be flooded with Willpower. Because you will be actually plaing the character that the sheet says you are playing.

    If you just got the order and the basic info handed to you and you just blundered into your task, you´re not being much of a Spy or Survivor.

    I think too many people rely on the ST to come up with recovery conditions for Anchors. I think it should be the other way around and the players should be probing, pressing and presenting their cases for recovery, and driving their character development and the story forward while at it.

    Of course, YMMV, as it depends on the table's style of STing and playing.

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  • Ever Professional
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Ok. That doesn't seem to line up with Survivor, but it should definitely work for Spy. Did this book contain really damning secrets, or just stuff the Ordo would rather keep private?
    It was one of the Ordo's latest mystical findings; I forget what was supposed to be in the book, but it was something that they had yet to dig into because my character intercepted it and stole it.

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
    Well my Mask and Dirge for my current game are Spy and Survivor respectively. In our last session my character was sent to steal a book from the Ordo, but he ended up getting in a fight with a ghoul; when he won it was apparent that the ghoul saw his face, and so he killed the ghoul to get rid of a witness; he then proceeded to get the book and get out. I got one willpower point back after that.
    Ok. That doesn't seem to line up with Survivor, but it should definitely work for Spy. Did this book contain really damning secrets, or just stuff the Ordo would rather keep private?

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  • Ever Professional
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Did you pick a Mask and Dirge your character frequently engages in? If not that might be your problem. If so, it might be your ST being too stingy with giving Willpower for engaging in Anchors.
    Well my Mask and Dirge for my current game are Spy and Survivor respectively. In our last session my character was sent to steal a book from the Ordo, but he ended up getting in a fight with a ghoul; when he won it was apparent that the ghoul saw his face, and so he killed the ghoul to get rid of a witness; he then proceeded to get the book and get out. I got one willpower point back after that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
    Yeah, I guess in theory that works, but I've never gotten all my willpower back from either the Mask or Dirge, and I generally consider myself lucky if I get one point back. From what I've played from Hunter and Mage as well getting willpower back from Virtue or Vice is also kind of rare.
    Did you pick a Mask and Dirge your character frequently engages in? If not that might be your problem. If so, it might be your ST being too stingy with giving Willpower for engaging in Anchors.

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  • Ever Professional
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

    Vice gives you back one Willpower.
    Virtue gives you back all Willpower.

    Mask gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
    Dirge also gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
    Vampires get both Mask and Dirge, therefore they have twice as many ways to regain one Willpower as humans, and twice as many ways to regain all Willpower.
    Yeah, I guess in theory that works, but I've never gotten all my willpower back from either the Mask or Dirge, and I generally consider myself lucky if I get one point back. From what I've played from Hunter and Mage as well getting willpower back from Virtue or Vice is also kind of rare.

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
    Can you expand upon why the Mask and Dirges would be equal to essentially two Virtues and Vices? I know when I play vampire I'm typically always low on my willpowe because I hardly ever get any back, and when I do it is essentially always one willpower point. Honestly, vampires seem to have the worst willpower regain because outside of the Mask and Dirge the only way to get willpower back is by defending your attachment to one of your touchstones.
    Vice gives you back one Willpower.
    Virtue gives you back all Willpower.

    Mask gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
    Dirge also gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
    Vampires get both Mask and Dirge, therefore they have twice as many ways to regain one Willpower as humans, and twice as many ways to regain all Willpower.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ever Professional
    replied
    Originally posted by MCN View Post
    Anyways, more context! Part of the reason why the vampires do get effectively two Virtues and Vices (you can indulge both Masquerade or Requiem as if a vice or fulfill it as if a virtue) is because of that original plan of no-sleep-willpower. This would provide the Kindred with the willpower on a roughly equal par with humans. Demons, meanwhile, have only the one Virtue and one Vice they can fulfill or indulge, like humans. So, the logic behind supernatural virtue-vice equivalents don't even apply to the Unchained, which should be considered as well.
    Can you expand upon why the Mask and Dirges would be equal to essentially two Virtues and Vices? I know when I play vampire I'm typically always low on my willpowe because I hardly ever get any back, and when I do it is essentially always one willpower point. Honestly, vampires seem to have the worst willpower regain because outside of the Mask and Dirge the only way to get willpower back is by defending your attachment to one of your touchstones.

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  • Yossarian
    replied
    It's also in Beast in the same section as Mage. I believe it's just Werewolf and Promethean where it was unintentionally omitted; Promethean is an odd case because its rules chapter was done up before Mage (or so I remember someone saying?), even though it was released afterward.

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  • MCN
    replied
    A bit more context - the developers, during the time when they were talking about this, also mentioned that the section that talked about it actually got deleted during editing, and never got added back in.

    So, now its kind of up in the air, and, other than Mage, its just not mentioned in the books. Which leaves it up to individual STs to decide one way or another. Its really not a hard rule either way. Some will argue that it should be, but there's no definite hard rule in the books that say you should or should not. And, given that most writers here accept the idea of Death of the Author, that leaves a lot open if its not in the book specifically. Which is fine - to each their own games.


    Anyways, more context! Part of the reason why the vampires do get effectively two Virtues and Vices (you can indulge both Masquerade or Requiem as if a vice or fulfill it as if a virtue) is because of that original plan of no-sleep-willpower. This would provide the Kindred with the willpower on a roughly equal par with humans. Demons, meanwhile, have only the one Virtue and one Vice they can fulfill or indulge, like humans. So, the logic behind supernatural virtue-vice equivalents don't even apply to the Unchained, which should be considered as well.
    Last edited by MCN; 02-11-2017, 09:16 AM.

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  • Dave Brookshaw
    replied
    Mage 2e does say that mages regain willpower for sleeping - it's tucked away on page 213.

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  • Diggs
    replied
    Demon is not a stand-alone book, so it uses the Chronicles of Darkness book for rules which states "a character regains one point of spent Willpower for each full night's sleep she gets." Unlike Vampires, Demons sleep so there you go. I think any 2e book would use that rule unless the book addresses it.

    Leave a comment:

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