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  • Hacking, programming, and other advanced computer skills?

    How are the above things simulated in these games? Is there some system that I overlooked that can model them? I suppose it all comes down to a Computers roll, but in that sense everything comes down to a Skill roll or two...

    Oh, and are there any supernatural powers that interact with computers and advanced tech in general? I faintly remember something about Technomancy, but I'm not sure.


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

  • #2
    For Hacking I use Chase rules from CoD rulebook between hacker and Admin of server.


    Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
    My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      For Hacking I use Chase rules from CoD rulebook between hacker and Admin of server.
      Oh, that sounds nice. Especially considering the Chase rules already have a Social equivalent.


      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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      • #4
        I think it depends a lot on what you want to do with hacking in your games. Real hacking is generally speaking either boring or only interesting when you're getting into social engineering.

        If you want to go "hollywood hacking" the Chase rules are good. Keep in mind that this basically doesn't actually happen. Either the hackers are already in and the admins are panicking into damage control, or the admins spot the hackers and shut them out before anything happens. Live "code offs" as each races to out code the other is as made up as needing to keep people on the phone for 30 seconds to trace them (because caller isn't instant in movies...).

        If you want to model something closer to reality, the Craft system is probably the best bet. You coders are going to code, while your social engineers (if this is a team effort) are going to go to work exploiting the biggest flaws in systems (aka humans) to get access for the code to be inserted and everyone benefits from a Craft based plan equipment.

        It's a good show in general, but maybe watch Mr. Robot specifically for an eye on how they treat hacking, because it's as good as you're going to get for what modern hacking actually looks like while still keeping it dramatic enough to be interesting for a story.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          I think it depends a lot on what you want to do with hacking in your games. Real hacking is generally speaking either boring or only interesting when you're getting into social engineering.

          If you want to go "hollywood hacking" the Chase rules are good. Keep in mind that this basically doesn't actually happen. Either the hackers are already in and the admins are panicking into damage control, or the admins spot the hackers and shut them out before anything happens. Live "code offs" as each races to out code the other is as made up as needing to keep people on the phone for 30 seconds to trace them (because caller isn't instant in movies...).

          If you want to model something closer to reality, the Craft system is probably the best bet. You coders are going to code, while your social engineers (if this is a team effort) are going to go to work exploiting the biggest flaws in systems (aka humans) to get access for the code to be inserted and everyone benefits from a Craft based plan equipment.

          It's a good show in general, but maybe watch Mr. Robot specifically for an eye on how they treat hacking, because it's as good as you're going to get for what modern hacking actually looks like while still keeping it dramatic enough to be interesting for a story.
          Hmm, equipment crafting. I knew I should have read that section more closely.

          Is Mr. Robot a tv show or something? A movie? Still, I'll look for it. Thanks.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Is Mr. Robot a tv show or something? A movie? Still, I'll look for it. Thanks.
            It's TV series about modern hacker(s). I still thinks that once or twice there were shown hacking actions like Chase scenes, where generally they are like building equipment.



            Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
            My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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            • #7
              I think the Chase rules can work for the more social engineering side of hacking sure. But then it's just more of a social chase to ferret out a password or similar access point before security figures out you're trying.

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              • #8
                In most gamelines' 2e rules, there's usually a power that can be summed up as, "Tell the computer to do what you want it to do." Werewolves have Gift of Technology. Mages have Forces. Prometheans have Electrification stuff. I'm sure Demons and Changelings have something too, but I haven't looked.

                Mr. Robot is a TV show. I've only seen two episodes, but the hacking that went on there was realistic; since people are still praising that dimension, I can only imagine that it's still fairly solid.

                In general, modeling vague activities is a weird thing to map onto the CofD system. Is success in doubt? That deserves a roll. Is failure interesting narratively? That deserves a roll. Like, I could easily see all of this modeled as an Extended Action, using Crafts or Computers, using pretty much any Mental Attribute. Or a single stat+skill roll. Or complexified ad absurdum into a Social Maneuvering hack where the program complexity is the number of Doors, the first impressions is set by your dots in Computers, and the doors are opened by doing things like researching Stack Overflow using Academics or reproducing an exploit using Computers or maximizing code quality using Crafts or figuring out what a piece of code means using Empathy or Investigation.


                I call the Integrity-analogue the "subjective stat".
                An explanation how to use Social Manuevering.
                Guanxi Explanations: 1, 2, 3.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  For Hacking I use Chase rules from CoD rulebook between hacker and Admin of server.
                  That's an awesome idea.


                  Writes stuff. Sometimes you like it.
                  WoD | Changing Breeds, Umbra, Book of the Wyrm, Shattered Dreams CofD | Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd ed, Idigam Anthology, The Pack, Demon Storyteller's Guide, Hurt Locker, Dark Eras Companion, Beast Player's Guide, Deviant: The Renegades
                  The Trinity Continuum | ├ćon

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                  • #10
                    In Hurt Locker, under Violent Skills it talks about using Computers and the rolls for things like online harassment and searching through social media for personal information. It's not hacking per-say but I think some of it would fit under advanced computer skills.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Volke View Post
                      In Hurt Locker, under Violent Skills it talks about using Computers and the rolls for things like online harassment and searching through social media for personal information. It's not hacking per-say but I think some of it would fit under advanced computer skills.
                      All the more reason to get Hurt Locker, it seems!


                      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                        All the more reason to get Hurt Locker, it seems!
                        I mean, it is only a small section but I liked how the concept of using various skills in considerably "violent" ways like Doxxing, Online Harassment, Spreading False propoganda, etc. At least those are some of the themes I felt. It's a great book nonetheless .

                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                        For Hacking I use Chase rules from CoD rulebook between hacker and Admin of server.
                        This is also a genius idea; I never thought of it like this. Here is a star for you *
                        Last edited by Volke; 02-14-2017, 10:18 PM. Reason: Quotes are hard :(

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                        • #13
                          I actually use Social Maneuvering for hacking and cracking.


                          Genius: the Transgression 2E is a thing that's being worked on.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by malonkey1 View Post
                            I actually use Social Maneuvering for hacking and cracking.
                            Difference between using Social Maneuvering and Chase rules as Hacking is based on what feel you want to convey on game session or how much time you want it to take of game time.

                            Chase-based hacking will be 'Hollywood-style' montage in one scene that PCs hack Pentagon in few hours. Social Maneuvering one would be more real world like, when you dig by days for informations on target and get everything by using social engineering.

                            For Chase-like hacking I advise one roll by 15 minutes, rolls factors taking in account more powerful hardware and software and that Hacker almost always have Edge, as it he that is 'sneaking' in to Admin's system.


                            Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                            My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                            • #15
                              But what about hacking into the Pentagon's computer system while trying to connect to enough wifi hotspots to maintain connectivity during a high-speed chase through a densely-populated city while their allies are trying to keep signal repeaters within range by performing a tag-team free-run across rooftops and the sysadmin is actually in a jet-powered helicopter hopping across several satellite uplinks to do his stuff and heading to the NEXUS World Internet Hub but also grappling with an omnipresent artificial intelligence who definitely doesn't have orange hair trying to get access to the nuclear launch codes in every country at the same time?

                              Assuming that the sysadmin isn't inserting notes into the pages as you request them while typing with oven mitts. Which, I concede, would be a pretty big assumption under the circumstances.


                              I call the Integrity-analogue the "subjective stat".
                              An explanation how to use Social Manuevering.
                              Guanxi Explanations: 1, 2, 3.

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