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  • Hunter the Vigil supplement for Princesses

    Hello, people!

    I am currently trying to make a fan-made supplement for Hunter the Vigil similar to Nightstalkers, Spirit-Slayers, Witch-hunters, Mortal Remains and Tooth and Nails. One that would focus on their interactions with Princesses and the Outer Darkness from Princess: the Hopeful.

    The Kings Raven gave me his permission to try writing this, as well as some small ideas for a start. So far, I have written some paragraphs, and I have some ideas for a new compact as well as some of the relationships between the various factions and the Hopeful-- but I'd take any help I can get.

    Does anyone have suggestions or is interested in helping?


    Edit: after recommandation, I am making the draft visible to everyone. Warning: the parts in italic are ideas that were suggested to me and have still yet to be fully fleshed out.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Darinas; 04-10-2017, 07:21 AM.

  • #2
    Dream or Vocation? What is the general stance? Maybe-allies like Mortal Remains treats Sin-Eaters? Enemies, like Witches?


    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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    • #3
      Thank you for answering^^

      Well, I would like to make it playable for both versions if possible, but seeing how I am only familiar with the Dream one, it's more likely to apply to it (If there are any Vocation fans, though, I am willing to listen).

      As for the stance, well, depend on the group obviously, but so far, in what I wrote, I went mostly for a Maybe-Allies similar to Sin-Eaters. I tried to play up the fact their idealism makes them something of a wild card, as on one hand they are more likely to cooperate with Hunters because both wish to do good (usually), on the other hand they can easily turn against them if they feel Hunters are using deplorable methods (such as the Malleus Maleficarum using torture or the Cheiron Group's practice of dissecting supernaturals) and might even help supernaturals in the hope of redeeming them (the Embassy of Lilith trying to support vampires). Obviously, most church militant factions like the Malleus Maleficarum and the Long Night tend to see them as just another kind of witches (albeit misguided ones), and then there is the problem of Twilight Princesses causing bad publicity for them.

      Right now, the group I have problem with is the Ashwood Abbey, since I am not sure if they would hunt them or see them as too humans to qualify as monsters...

      Feel free to give your opinion, I take every constructive criticism.

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      • #4
        Is there any legitimate argument humanity could hold against Princesses, to justify having a Conspiracy/Compact hunting them (besides jerks like Cherion, the Hunt Club or Ashwood Abbey)?

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        • #5
          Good question, actually. Regarding the canon groups, it's actually pretty easy too see how they wouldn't trust them, since, again, Witches. As for legitimate arguments, there ARE real dangers in the Twilight Princesses, who were at some point more numerous than the Radiants, so it'd make sense hunter groups would have developped. Mostly, I would like to build this supplement for world-building, because I feel it's interesting to explore how Princesses and Hunters interact, how hunters perceive them, and so on.

          Kings Raven actually had a good suggestion regarding that for the concept of one of the Compacts/Conspiracies: he suggested to have one those focused on defending questionable mortals who are opposed by Princesses, such as corrupt politicians or corporate executives, who would be happy to recruit specialist to handle this kind of thing. However, he said it was probably best to have them focused on destroying a Princess' reputation and Belief rather than killing her, since, to quote him: even in the World of Darkness, corrupt politicians aren't trying to kill each others. I think this idea is a good compromise to make a Princess-hunting Compact who wouldn't be complete assholes (they are essentially just doing their job).

          I also intend to have at least one Compact or Conspiracy focusing on killing creatures of the Darkness rather than Princesses. That, I think, is pretty easy to justify^^'

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          • #6
            A few semi-plausible reasons people might hunt them, if people don't mind suggestions from a new-comer:

            They're inexperienced- the princesses are full of idealism but that doesn't mean they're good at it. A princess with more power then sense might cause a lot of damage trying to help without fully considering the consequences of her actions, and a hunter group that tries to rein them in favour of professional life-savers and emergency teams isn't implausible.

            they're invaders- what are the princesses but invaders from mysterious dream-kingdoms, bent on replacing earthly nations with the rule of ancient immortal queens?. Some hunters might be suspicious of their motives, others might simply feel humanity has the right to solve their own problems without calling down some mystical light-force to take over

            They're doomed- A princesses's faith can't last for long, and terrible things happen when it fails. The twilight courts at best, the dethroned at worst. In the world of darkness, its a fool's errand to expect them to keep up the good fight for life- better to take them down before they fall, or at least keep an eye on them for the signs.

            They're unholy- the "princesses" are thieves of the light of heaven, stealing it for power. They try to use it for good, but they are only human. Better to free the light to return to the source and work on healing the world from the Throne of God (a deluded group, probably, but a group that would plausibly exist)

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            • #7
              Darinas, the Dream/Vocation split won't be a problem for you. The differences between the versions are small enough that a group of hunters couldn't tell which one they were dealing with; IC information in a H:tV supplement is supposed to be subtly wrong, and the mechanics are drastically simplified. If what you write is fine for Dream, it'll work for Vocation, and vice versa.

              Something that just occurred to me as a possible Compact: an NGO that opposes recruitment of child soldiers, tries to keep children from joining criminal gangs, and generally works to keep children from taking to violence. You can probably imagine how a group like that would react if they learned that a supernatural force is enlisting minors as agents in an occult war. At the same time they'd be maddening for the Hopeful, since they wouldn't want to kill a Princess, just keep her out of danger - they mean well, but they're always in the way ...

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              • #8
                Hey there, newcomer myself but from what I've read and seen so far Princess seems like a fantastic fangame. I don't know much about the intricacies of the gameline itself, but I think Urbenmyth and Michael Brazier are on the right track because the Compact and Conspiracies they suggest enforce the common theme that all Hunter the Vigil books do for the other gamelines: make the players question the material presented in the other gamelines by examining it through a mortal lens, and leave with interesting ideas they can use for either Hunter or the topic gameline's.

                Here are some ideas I'd personally like to see brought up in a fanmade Hunter supplement for Princess, but as previously mentioned my knowledge is limited so some or all of them might be a bit redundant:

                • Can a Princess really trust the source of their powers?

                • Just what are the Immortal Queens? What is the Darkness? And just how much is an average mortal effected by the war between hope & despair really? I mean really really?

                • If a Princess uses their powers to help make the world a better place against other mortal's will, are they really making the world a better place?

                • Ect.

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                • #9
                  Oh, how I longed for this day to come.

                  In my own honest and possibly uninformed opinion, there is kinda a general sentiment that magical girls, and in turn Princesses, cannot be portrayed in a negative light; after all, their powers are always used for the greater good and how could they possibly be antagonistic when they talk about love and friendship, having the confidence to fight against the darkness, never giving in to despair, etc. It's even ingrained into the mechanics of Princess, where a Princess suffers pains when something runs contrary to her values or compromises her Beliefs.

                  I want to say that there has been a BIG influx of specific manga that play around with the idea of magical girls not necessarily being all that good. And I don't mean the job that they have: the magical girls themselves are NOT good. Tragic, yes. Sympathetic, definitely. Morally outstanding, NO.To wit:

                  Magical Girl Apocalypse: This manga demonstrates the possible effects of having a being with incredible power coming into existence in a world that doesn't understand their power. These alien creatures that resemble dolls and princesses are capable of massive destruction, crushing people under the weight of enhanced gravity or turning bodies inside out, sparking an apocalypse scenario. It is a gorefest that occurs due to the power of love and the extent that one would go to in order to be loved. It could be used as a basis to explain the dangers of a Princess's powers.

                  Magical Girl Site: From the makers of Magical Girl Apocalypse, Magical Girl Site discusses the idea of magical girls that really should NOT have the powers of a magical girl. The magical girls in this series are not heroes; they are survivors in a cruel, cruel world known as reality. It looks into abuse and suffering, demonstrating how people who have suffered from such pain over a long time would behave if they are given the power of a magical girl.This is pay-dirt when it comes to antagonistic Princesses or at least fallen Princesses.

                  Day Break Illusion: So you know the monsters of the week that magical girls fight? How they are either disposable minions of darkness or possessed humans that can have the possession smacked out of them? Yeah, Day Break Illusion features a world where the monsters are actually human. At least they WERE. Not going deep into detail, but Day Break Illusion focuses on this fact as well as the fact that the ones that have to defeat the monsters and effectively mercy-kill the humans they once were are magical teenage girls. Not only that: the death of the monsters removes everyone else's memory of the person they were. This could play into why Hunters would want to start fighting Princesses if they were to witness a group of them beating on a Darkened that was a dear friend or relative.

                  The Other Puella Magi Magica Series: Did you know that there are spinoffs of Puella Magi Madoka Magica? Well, now you do. I want to speak about two in particular: Puella Magi Kazumi Magica and Puella Magi Oriko Magica. Kazumi Magica is a good examination into how magical girls can slowly come apart and become a danger to everyone around them. Without giving too much away, Kazumi Magica is about the death of others, the pain of despair, and the lengths that people are willing to go to in order to save a life. Oriko Magica, on the other hand, explores the world of ideals and beliefs, eventually culminating into a discussion over the needs of many outweighing the needs of the few. There's also Puella Magi Suzette Magica, but that focuses more directly on the relationships within a team of magical girls and the in-fighting that occurs. Kazumi Magica and Oriko Magica could work as discussion points into why Princesses, despite their humanitarian nature, are a danger. It could even work to demonstrate why the viewpoints of the Twilight Queens are so terrifying (With Kazumi Magica describing the Queen of Tears and Oriko Magica describing the Queens of Storms and Mirrors.

                  Honorable Mention - Persona 5: A group of teenagers who have the ability to transform into an alternate identity with powers go around defeating Shadows and turning the hearts of the corrupt. Very magical girl if you ask me. For an added bonus, the protagonists of the game are opposed by people in a position of great power, whether it be a corporate executive, a political figure, or even a teacher.


                  In terms of the meta of Hunter: the Vigil, the organizations of Night Stalkers, Spirit Slayers, Witch Finders, and the fan supplement Dream Catchers have a sort of collective theme. Namely, the Compacts are either a pro-active "fighter" who work against their splat (Night Watch, Promethean Brotherhood, Sons of Cu Chulainn), a "defender" who protect others or rehabilitate others from their splat (Maiden's Blood Sisterhood, the Talbot Group, Searchlight), a "bystander" who usually unaware of what the actual situation is concerning the splat (The Illuminated Brotherhood, Keepers of the Source, the Wilde Society), or a dark mirror of their splat (the Barrett Commission wants to control the nation and focus on political intrigue like Vampires, the Bear Lodge are litereal hunters who hunt the ultimate hunter: werewolves, and Division Six who are controlled by a Seer) while the Conspiracies A) have a considerable amount of information on their splat, B) have powers that mirror what the splat is capable of performing, and C) are usually controlled by the main antagonists of the splats. Granted, this doesn't mean that these Princess Hunters need to conform to these other organizations; it's just some food for thought to provide a starting point.

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                  • #10
                    I just remembered the fan theory about Future Crystal Tokyo in Sailor Moon: in the far future, Earth is an utopia without crimes or violence, and everyone seems to be happy. How is that possible? Because the Senshi used their powers to "purify" the world from Chaos aka eliminated human ability to feel negative emotions like anger, lust or envy. At all.
                    Last edited by Raistlin; 04-03-2017, 07:39 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Thank you all for your informations and suggestions! I have already started integrating most of your ideas in my draft. If some of you are interested, I am willing to share the link and let them have a look at it.

                      One thing I am hesitating on right now is, how much should Hunters know about Princesses? For example, should they know about the Dreamlands and possess tech to access it, like TFW does for the Shadow? Or should it be little more than stories they heard about from the mouth of the Hopeful?

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                      • #12
                        Other hunter viewpoints, because coming up with them is interesting:

                        Princesses are revolutionaries. and you only need to look at France in the 1790s to see what well-meaning idealists can do. What happens to the boring and orderly people once Spades have taken control, or the stupid and incurious under Diamonds? Based on past revolutions, nothing good. Better to ensure we never have to find out.

                        Princesses are suspicious. In the world of darkness, do you really believe the whole "avatars of perfect light" thing? They must be up to something. No-one can be that perfect. (bear in mind that the hunter books isn't necessarily the same as the canon- here, the hunters might be right)

                        Princesses are fools. Yes, the utopias they suggest sound great, but there's a reason they only exist in dreams. Once their perfect worlds have to deal with the realities of earth, they'll collapse, and who knows how much they'll take down with them. Look at Alhambra. Look at the last time they ruled, when a wave of darkness shattered the world. It's time to stop them before they break something that can't be fixed.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Urbenmyth View Post
                          Princesses are fools. Yes, the utopias they suggest sound great, but there's a reason they only exist in dreams. Once their perfect worlds have to deal with the realities of earth, they'll collapse, and who knows how much they'll take down with them. Look at Alhambra. Look at the last time they ruled, when a wave of darkness shattered the world. It's time to stop them before they break something that can't be fixed.

                          Was just about to suggest that last one. The last time their immmortal god-queens ruled the world, even the Princesses acknowledged they screwed up bad. They each became zealots behind their idea of what a perfect world was to the point they fought each other harder than they fought evil. And now they're stuck in a literal land of dreams, unexposed to the harsh realities of the world, which cannot help their perspective. Heck, Spades is outright said to be a frivolous and absentee ruler to this day. Why do they deserve to guide us?

                          Also, seriously, democracy is a thing that many people hold dear. Is everyone really going to be ok with the return of immortal monarchies, benevolent as they seem or even are? Some will fight just on principle

                          Also, that anti-child-soldier NGO suggested earlier could also work well as a more active enemy against Nobles who are adults. They're not likely to listen to their side of the story and will just see them as child exploiters. And depending on how much they know about the process of becoming a Noble, they might think it's something other Nobles do to you. And the effects of the Belief meter sound a lot similar to the real life mental health problem known as hyper-empathy, which is not a fun experience from what I've heard. So now they blame you for driving kids mad. Yeah, they might go vigilante on older Nobles.
                          Last edited by Master Aquatosic; 04-03-2017, 03:14 PM.


                          A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
                            I just remembered the fan theory about Future Crystal Tokyo in Sailor Moon: in the far future, Earth is an utopia without crimes or violence, and everyone seems to be happy. How is that possible? Because the Senshi used their powers to "purify" the world from Chaos aka eliminated human ability to feel negative emotions like anger, lust or envy. At all.

                            I mean, I've never seen the problem with that kind of thing beyond the part where people aren't given a choice in it, but good inspiration


                            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                            • #15
                              Considering that the concept of magical girls is incredibly modern (like, existing in pop culture since maybe the 60s?) and generally limited to specific cultures, I feel that Hunters are generally in the dark as to what a Princess is or does until they actually witness a Princess in action. Even then, the initial encounter with a Princess may just instill the idea that Princesses are just incredibly empowered humans to a Hunter. The animosity towards a Princess most likely develops as a Hunter begins to understand the nature of the Nobles.

                              Innocent people chosen by the Princes and Princesses become Sworn, normal mortals recruited into this war against the darkness to serve under these mysterious and alien Queens who seem to believe that they have some right to rule over this world. Rather than receiving the necessary help and guidance, a down and desperate man on a self-destructive run is struck down by these supposed figures of hope, with whispers of "Darkspawn" and "Darkened" between them. A cell learns a dark secret that the Nobles hold and escape from the overwhelming presence of their once ally, a forlorn Prince who gave into his despair and became one of the Dethroned. And that's not even getting into misconceptions that Hunters may have towards the magical capabilities of a Princess that mark her as a witch or to their dual nature which allows them to integrate perfectly alongside mortals.

                              I guess the key points that Hunters would really understand about Princesses as surface knowledge are A) they use some sort of trinket that allows them to transform in between forms, B) they have magical powers which they use to fight against supposed monsters, and C) they have pledged their allegiance to some sort of head-figure; a Queen.

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