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Antagonists for Mortals

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  • #16
    Originally posted by WHW View Post
    I second using simplified stats and different mechanics for monsters. Unpopular opinion: they were written with games that feature player characters as these monsters, and thus they emphasize playing a monster, not trying to hunt it or whatever Mortals do. Different purpose, different rules.

    Wait, this is an unpopular opnion? It's the direct statement of the Developers. And a large amount of the people eon this forum, that I knew of.


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    • #17
      I have encountered a lot of people who believe that mechanics for splats are player-gm neutral (as in, they exist to model a specific supernatural being), and thus should be used in as fullest form as possible, and that doing it other ways is degrading. But I tend to hang out around Mage-related things, and a lot of people try to use other splatbooks as "monster manual" for Mages, which then blows up in all the weird and non-fun ways.
      Basically, I don't like crossovers until game is specifically designed or tweaked towards crossover play.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by WHW View Post
        I have encountered a lot of people who believe that mechanics for splats are player-gm neutral (as in, they exist to model a specific supernatural being), and thus should be used in as fullest form as possible, and that doing it other ways is degrading. But I tend to hang out around Mage-related things, and a lot of people try to use other splatbooks as "monster manual" for Mages, which then blows up in all the weird and non-fun ways.
        Basically, I don't like crossovers until game is specifically designed or tweaked towards crossover play.
        I mean, I've seen it a few times with people who barely know the systems and just assume that. But it is pretty clear that that's not the intention, especialy if you ask the devs. Most of my interactions outside of my core group is on these boards so, kinda suprises me that it is still that much of a thing to think that.


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        • #19
          For better or worse, a lot of people "gets into" the CofD thanks to a word of mouth sales pitch of "all gamelines are compatible and thus balanced, so it's an amazing crossover system, this way you can have best of everything in your reach, pick and choose!", which then tends to lead into frustration and disappointment.
          This ITS MADE FOR CROSSOVER! gospel is really, really popular, and often contrasted with classic World of Darkness as "see, cWoD splats were all over the place with their mechanics, but CofD makes everything run using the same basic rules and rules templates so they can work flawlessly together with no adjustments needed!".

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          • #20
            Originally posted by WHW View Post
            For better or worse, a lot of people "gets into" the CofD thanks to a word of mouth sales pitch of "all gamelines are compatible and thus balanced, so it's an amazing crossover system, this way you can have best of everything in your reach, pick and choose!", which then tends to lead into frustration and disappointment.
            This ITS MADE FOR CROSSOVER! gospel is really, really popular, and often contrasted with classic World of Darkness as "see, cWoD splats were all over the place with their mechanics, but CofD makes everything run using the same basic rules and rules templates so they can work flawlessly together with no adjustments needed!".
            They can work together. Balance is sold separately. Both a horse and a car can race - but they aren't balanced. Still, it isn't like a horse and a plane.


            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

              They can work together. Balance is sold separately. Both a horse and a car can race - but they aren't balanced. Still, it isn't like a horse and a plane.

              I have seen this having had to be said occasionally, and I have had to say it to people on occasion. It sounds like WHW does it all the time.

              The contrast with WoD is one I have seen too. Man, maybe hanging out on these forums has skewed my thinking and it really is still a huge problem that people think that 'compatable' means 'like Races in DnD!'.


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              • #22
                I literally just have been told that Chronicles of Darkness not only are perfect for crossover, they have been designed with crossover in mind and that's the big difference between New World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness. Apparently that's what the developers say, and why there are sidebars "how does splat x interact with powers y" in books.

                The kicker? Two separate people told that to me in last 15 minutes.

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                • #23
                  wow, have you directed these people to this site?


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by WHW View Post
                    I literally just have been told that Chronicles of Darkness not only are perfect for crossover, they have been designed with crossover in mind and that's the big difference between New World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness. Apparently that's what the developers say, and why there are sidebars "how does splat x interact with powers y" in books.

                    The kicker? Two separate people told that to me in last 15 minutes.
                    First edition certainly was built more for that. There's a basic system that spans across every game line and frequent mentions of what happens when you mix game lines. Each game line seems to have a section dedicated to it somewhere. People do manage to do multi-splat games, with players being from different game lines, but I think the point was originally to just have it so that if you are incorporating a werewolf in your vampire game you don't have to struggle so much because, outside of the template, they work off the same rules.

                    Second edition has been a little more shy about directly referencing that kind of stuff, and it seems to be because they're planning a Crossover book.

                    I'd certainly agree it's made for crossover. I wouldn't say you should expect any balance in it, however. I've usually teamed up NPCs from other game lines as long-term friendly NPCs or antagonists and had absolutely no problem with it, managing to keep the mood and theme of the players game intact. I think the real problem comes when people think crossover means something like Gauntlet, where everyone's playing a different 'type' but they're all equal in power, which a simple understanding of the game lines should show is incorrect. Though, again, some people still do it and have fun.
                    Last edited by nofather; 04-13-2017, 10:13 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Oh yeah, I should add. I ran and played in a complete 'super-friends' type game in 1st edition and plan to do another in 2nd. But I know that is not how these games are designed to be played. So I know that balance will be something that if I want it's on me.

                      I think it comes down to what one means by crossover, are the games using compatible rules so you can include each other? Yes. Do the splats basically work like DnD races and a mixed party is expected? Absolutely not.



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