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  • The real reason the whole "travel back before the Age of Order and prevent the Technocracy from happening" doesn't work is because Wrinkle the Paradox Spirit will imprison you outside of Time until you say sorry for trying.

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    • The Asenscion talk is getting pretty off topic...


      Onyx Path Forum Moderator
      My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

      Gowing by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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      • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


        Well, yeah, there's two popular versions of time travel. In one version, you literally travel through time and any changes you make will impact the future you return to. In the other version, you just travel to an alternate reality where things played out differently than they should have. So any changes you make in the new time line won't affect the existing time line you came from. Either one sounds good, actually.And the alternate reality method would probably be less risky than the rewriting history method.
        Which Feng Shui solves with the idea of Critical Shifts... Is an interesting application of time travel theory.


        The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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        • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
          The Asenscion talk is getting pretty off topic...

          At this point, what is on topic?

          We could go back to discussing the God-Machine and its implications on science, technology and the supernatural.


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          • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
            The Asenscion talk is getting pretty off topic...

            Not necessarily. The whole topic was written because I disagreed with GMC's idea of magic, so alternative approaches to it in other game lines seems fitting.


            Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

            Logically, the Alternate Reality one is the only one of the two that will work. If you "changed history", then "you" don't exist anymore. If you Bob-the-Mage went back in time in 2013 to stop WWII, then why would Bob-the-Mage in the new WWII-less timeline travel back in time to stop something that didn't happen? Temporal Paradox.

            Best bet is to change something, then "return" to the future by sticking yourself in stasis. Of course, then it still isn't "your" future/present anymore, so I don't know why you'd bother.

            Time travel - only a good idea while drunk.



            "Big ball of wibbly, wobbly, timey whimey... stuff." - Doctor Who

            One could go with the esoteric idea that time is an artificial concept, created by the Technocracy to prevent anybody from tampering with their work.

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            • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              One could go with the esoteric idea that time is an artificial concept, created by the Technocracy to prevent anybody from tampering with their work.[/SIZE][/FONT]

              To bring somewhat back to Chronicles, Time Travel in Mage: The Awakening follows this to a degree (in 2nd Ed at least). Linear Time is part of the Lie, which is why Mages can manipulate it. Mages are explicitly immune to their own temporal paradoxes and there is a spell that would shield you from all time travel caused revisions to history.


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              • Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
                To bring somewhat back to Chronicles, Time Travel in Mage: The Awakening follows this to a degree (in 2nd Ed at least). Linear Time is part of the Lie, which is why Mages can manipulate it. Mages are explicitly immune to their own temporal paradoxes and there is a spell that would shield you from all time travel caused revisions to history.
                I wouldn't really agree that linear time is part of the lie, honestly. In the same way that Death isn't part of the lie, Time is an Arcanum, so it is part of the Supernal truth. What's a lie is that what is past is passed and cannot be undone. But even when manipulating time through the Time Arcanum, it behaves linearly. The lie is that time is like a river, ever flowing only one way, the truth is that time is like a tapestry in the weaving, the past being that which has already been woven, the future being that which has yet to be woven, and the present being the point where the weaving occurs. But like a tapestry, if you mess up a stitch you can unwravel it to that point and do it again differently.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator
                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Gowing by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                • Half serious:
                  Future literally not existing also means that your players don't have to be paranoid about future mages post-emptively dropping a nuke on them, as there are no future mages to do so!
                  ...which, on the other hand, means that if something from future *does* impact you, it means that whatever you are feeling right now is not right now and is just timeline sorting itself out. Weird realization.

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                  • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                    I wouldn't really agree that linear time is part of the lie, honestly. In the same way that Death isn't part of the lie, Time is an Arcanum, so it is part of the Supernal truth. What's a lie is that what is past is passed and cannot be undone. But even when manipulating time through the Time Arcanum, it behaves linearly. The lie is that time is like a river, ever flowing only one way, the truth is that time is like a tapestry in the weaving, the past being that which has already been woven, the future being that which has yet to be woven, and the present being the point where the weaving occurs. But like a tapestry, if you mess up a stitch you can unwravel it to that point and do it again differently.

                    Well, yeah, that is a lot better of a way to put it. But I am at work and went for brevity.


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                    • Originally posted by WHW View Post
                      Half serious:
                      Future literally not existing also means that your players don't have to be paranoid about future mages post-emptively dropping a nuke on them, as there are no future mages to do so!
                      ...which, on the other hand, means that if something from future *does* impact you, it means that whatever you are feeling right now is not right now and is just timeline sorting itself out. Weird realization.
                      Yup. It would be pretty existentially horrifying as a Mage to meet a Mage from the future, because you would know with absolute certainty that you are literally living in the objective past.


                      Onyx Path Forum Moderator
                      My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                      Gowing by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                      • You could even make a case for it not being "living", but simply being a rewritten memory of someone in the future. Right in this "second", the world is simply readjusting it's timeline to consequences created by a time traveler! Trip trip trippity trip.

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                        • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                          Yup. It would be pretty existentially horrifying as a Mage to meet a Mage from the future, because you would know with absolute certainty that you are literally living in the objective past.
                          I'm not so sure. I mean, it's certainly annoying having time travellers turn up, but aside from that you're not going to notice any differences.


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