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Demons of Inferno

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  • Demons of Inferno

    Is there a canon origin for the demons of Inferno? Are they fallen angels like the Fallen from classic WoD, or do they stem from some other source?


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  • #2
    There is not. Best guess would be that the Inferno is what Mages would call a Lower Depth, and its influence corrupts spirits and other ephemeral entities, turning them into dominions.


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    • #3
      That makes sense. Thanks!


      Our society is held together by the thinnest of threads: that exquisitely refined sense of tribal order.
      Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence

      I am a huge fan of both the Trinity Universe and the classic World of Darkness.

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      • #4
        One potential origin from inferno was that they were just a result of the evil in human minds getting feed with enough sin until the mind births the demon.

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        • #5
          In my person ChroD cosmology, there are the "native" Inferno Demons, formed from the sins of mortals creating wounds and feeding into the Inferno through those wounds, and purely formed of Infernal Essence (technically, they're Astral for me); Ghosts and spirits corrupted by the Inferno; and straight-up Fallen Demons that escaped the Old World of Darkness during the Time of Judgment business, and have only fuzzy recollections of who and what they are.

          But that's not the standard interpretation, but I like to include stuff without telling my players just to fuck with them. Plus, Fallen Demons make for surprisingly interesting supporting characters for Promethean, Mage, Demon, Werewolf and Geist.


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          • #6
            My own take is a combination of what Inferno suggests with some Berserk inspiration. Basically, demons and infernal beings exist because mankind sorta wished them into existence by needing an ultimate "Idea of Evil" to justify all the sins and the bad stuff in the world. From that point, they do what they can to spread sins and suffering so they can feed on it and keep the cycle going.

            Basically, Inferno exists because deep down people want it to exist/fear it does.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
              There is not. Best guess would be that the Inferno is what Mages would call a Lower Depth, and its influence corrupts spirits and other ephemeral entities, turning them into dominions.
              DaveB has said that this is canonically the case. (Lower Depths aren't really Mage cosmology, just what mages call a general WoD phenomenon of which the Inferno is an example - namely scary hungry places that have to feed on something from the "more real" world to sustain themselves).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                DaveB has said that this is canonically the case. (Lower Depths aren't really Mage cosmology, just what mages call a general WoD phenomenon of which the Inferno is an example - namely scary hungry places that have to feed on something from the "more real" world to sustain themselves).
                Does the Lower Depths connect at all to the Underworld? Particularly to the Ocean of Fragments (I coulda sworn it was called the Ocean of Forgetting...). Maybe its because of something I read from 1E mage but I always liked the idea that the deeper into the Underworld you get, the more likely you are of accidentally entering the Lower Depths by accident. This of course would make for some oh-so-not-good times for some intrepid sin-eaters!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post
                  Does the Lower Depths connect at all to the Underworld? Particularly to the Ocean of Fragments (I coulda sworn it was called the Ocean of Forgetting...). Maybe its because of something I read from 1E mage but I always liked the idea that the deeper into the Underworld you get, the more likely you are of accidentally entering the Lower Depths by accident. This of course would make for some oh-so-not-good times for some intrepid sin-eaters!
                  Some of them might - and I agree, it would be fun if they did. Every Lower Depth realm is different, so you can connect any given one to the regular world however you like - with the added advantage that understanding one of them won't help the PC's understand any of the others .

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post

                    Does the Lower Depths connect at all to the Underworld? Particularly to the Ocean of Fragments (I coulda sworn it was called the Ocean of Forgetting...). Maybe its because of something I read from 1E mage but I always liked the idea that the deeper into the Underworld you get, the more likely you are of accidentally entering the Lower Depths by accident. This of course would make for some oh-so-not-good times for some intrepid sin-eaters!
                    Dark Eras on Alexander's age says that mages perceived the Lower Depths as the lowest realms of existence, even below the Underworld. Of course, the "heights" of realms are a metaphor and realms don't literally overlap or underlay each other, but maybe there is a little sliver of truth in that particular colloquial expression...

                    (I remember something about creatures called Helminth, and their realm connecting to the Underworld, and it being pretty much a Lower Depth in description. And Duat probably counts as both, if you think about it...)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                      Dark Eras on Alexander's age says that mages perceived the Lower Depths as the lowest realms of existence, even below the Underworld. Of course, the "heights" of realms are a metaphor and realms don't literally overlap or underlay each other, but maybe there is a little sliver of truth in that particular colloquial expression...

                      (I remember something about creatures called Helminth, and their realm connecting to the Underworld, and it being pretty much a Lower Depth in description. And Duat probably counts as both, if you think about it...)
                      Yeah, I can see that. I've also sort of mentally toyed with the ideas of the worlds going left to right, like a light experiment where the lower depths pass through a filter and segregate into a prismatic flow of different, albeit awful, colors. Or maybe it is the reverse. I forget what it is called where you do a spectrometry of a star and get a dark band with faint colored lines in it? I really need to study that again because I know that the presentation of the test changes depending on the heat and composition of your subject, like you get the dark bands for like, a flourescent light I think, and then a white band with dark lines in it for the Sun? You know what I'm talking about :O

                      Anyway, I see the material world and Underworld acting as the filter that produces the Lower Depths in that sort of way, which would put them "to the right of us", but going to the Lower Depths will always feel like going down, sort of like going to the center of the earth but with no center being possible. The spiritual nature of the journey will cause the intuitive feeling of going "deeper".

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                      • #12
                        It doesn't really make sense to give "The Lower Depths" a single spatial relationship with any other realm, because they're not collectively located in any particular plae. Lower Depth is more like a category of place, or rather, a quality that some places have. Some may be connected to the underworld, some to the hedge. At least one (Inferno) can be reached through Wounds and might therefore be more closely connected to the shadow. The "place" the Strix are from (which may or may not just be all darkness) is probably one.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                          (I remember something about creatures called Helminth, and their realm connecting to the Underworld, and it being pretty much a Lower Depth in description. And Duat probably counts as both, if you think about it...)
                          That's specifically from the Numbers Station write up in Mage the Awakening's Summoners Supplement. Basically giant worms who eat reality and poop out an underworld'esc expanse of endless greys. The ghosts who are responsible for the stations broadcast a coded signal that leads to the seals that keep the Helminth from entering and eating the Fallen World.

                          This doesn't really have anything to do with Inferno, I just have a thing for both completing referencing and love the numbers station write up in Summoners.

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                          • #14
                            2.0 material does explicitly reference the Inferno as a Lower Depths realm in a couple of places (please don't ask me for references, I just spent all of last night trawling 20 books to root out every reference to the Deva Corp, I'm a bit burned out).

                            The fundamental defining feature of the Lower Depths is that they are realms that are less-than our material world - a sort of reality crumble of realms that bubble up in the wake of ours (Awakening refers to them as being to our world like our world is to the Supernal - the material world is a shadow cast by the Supernal, and they're the shadows of our world).

                            And the defining feature of the Inferno is that it is a realm without Virtue. Nothing in it can have Virtue, nothing that goes there can keep Virtue because the realm does not have it as a part of its structure.

                            So basically, an Inferno demon is anything that grew in the Inferno or anyone/thing that travelled to the Inferno or anyone/thing that was transformed by a being of the Inferno.

                            Of course the Inferno is ruled by The Adversary, the Lord of Illusion, so it's possible his existence caused it to come into being and everything may flow from that.


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                            • #15
                              Actually my theory of the Inferno is that its a place without Sin and the pleasure that comes with it, which is why its denizens are so hungry for it.

                              I wrote a whole explaination for my theory that the Inferno is a place hungry for the vice because its a place without pleasure where sin can't exist and the Empyream is a place that is hungry for the virtue that can't exist in a place without suffering.

                              I'll see if I can find it later.

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