American Gods as CofD chronicle

[wyrdhamster]

Someone need to make this topic, so maybe it's me, as I'm fan of the book. So yesterday STARZ started to show their 'American Gods' TV series, based on the titular novel of Neil Gaiman. And plot is... well... about Gods in America. TV series seems to be rather faithful to book original, and has great and colorful visuals of the books scenes. Just see the trailer if you did not watched.

Now, as to using book or TV series as CoD chronicle - let's focus on Gods. Story of Shadow ( character ) is important, but not as direct inspiration. Gods in this universe works very similar to those of Scion RPG - I would even point to my small idea topic how to recreate then in CoD as SuperGoetia from Temenos, comparable more to less primal Horrors of BtP. But let's stop with this direct port.

We can also looks on Gods as inspirations for powerful Shadow Realm Spirits, much more limited by their worshipers rules than in normal CoD rules. But it works that way - Gods have Bans, need generated Essence, are divided over Old Beliefs and Technology Choirs / Umia, need to fight over worship. Then most of Gods characters would work nicely as at least Urged ( or even Claimed ) individuals, living with their 'godhood' inside them. Scenes like opening actions of Vikings in America and their sacrifices - are great inspiration of what Shadow's Spirits could driven their worshipers to doing, only to generate Essence.

[wyrdhamster]

There is nice clip summing up concept of Gods in this series

[21C Hermit]

Interesting Topic - If we run with Gods as SuperGoetia of Temenos / Bright Dream - What stars they would have common with Beasts? I suppose Life & Legend and Nightmares could work. What's more?

We can steal from the Fate series and define two sets of Noble Phan- er, I mean, powers. The Atavism equivalent would be based on physical qualities or legendary items, and the Nightmare equivalent based on evoking the gods' lore and exploits. Relics and Miracles sound nice.

[GibberingEloquence]

Interesting Topic - If we run with Gods as SuperGoetia of Temenos / Bright Dream - What stars they would have common with Beasts? I suppose Life & Legend and Nightmares could work. What's more?

Life & Legend sound good, but I don't think Nightmares would suit every god. However, the abilities of gods are usually portrayed as being distinct from spells and always active, so to speak. This makes me think their main powers would be like Atavisms, but maybe powered by faith instead of fear?

[wyrdhamster]

Interesting Topic - If we run with Gods as SuperGoetia of Temenos / Bright Dream - What stars they would have common with Beasts? I suppose Life & Legend and Nightmares could work. What's more?

[wyrdhamster]

So it seems that Anansi is possible to look fffffaaaarrr in to future and very likes sacrifices in his name. I still thinks that level of sacrifices Gods demands is on Shadow Realm Spirit Gods kinda thing,

[Reighnhell]

RE: Gods Among Us

I have toyed with this basic idea a few times across a few different systems, well before I read American Gods. For adapting the idea to the WoD system, there are a few considerations -

1) Attempting to wedge the concept into an existing cosmology is difficult at best. We can make the idea work from just about any angle, but I like the approach that the Gods are essentially Astral Pangeans - they are concepts given identity by human belief, but ultimately take on their own identity. They would have an ability called "Incarnation" - this would operate like the Materialize Manifestation and the Mortal Mask Numina, but would have an indefinate duration in exchange for more limited power.

2) Is this something a Players can use? As a Storyteller, its easy for me to create a approximation of a Incarnated God (I use the Horror Rules, but the Ephemeral rules or any other sub system could be suitable). But if a player wanted to use this as a character, it would require some extensive home brewing. Not every creature type presented in the various books are intended for (or balanced) for player use and letting someone play a horror or ephemeral could cause many disruptive mechanical issues.

I personally recommend the homebrew route - it requires the most work, but it can get closer to the design idea of embodying a God thing trying to retro fit an existing splat to the task.

[wyrdhamster]

I hate to argue the easiest way to do is cast the old gods as mages with limitations-they are more akin to spirits and goetia in the Chronicles paradigm-but, well, it would be the easiest way to do it.

Well, apart from just casting the lot as Horrors(non-Beast).

Spirits and Goetia still can have Influences that more or less works as Arcana minus complex mechanics on higher dots - so I'm still much more for those 'Ephemeral Entities' interpretations. And Beasts Horrors are 'just' superGoetia, don't they?

[ArcaneArts]

Yeah, the old gods are my sticking point on an analogue, too. Werewolf kind of fits for superficial reasons, but I feel like there's a little Changeling and Mage, and a dash of Beast.

I was arguing to myself that you could make a stew of sorts out of Sin-Eaters, Forsaken, Awakening, and Lost with a fluff metaphysical backbone similar to Beast (Looking at you, [REDACTED in case no one's read the books])-but that would involve a lot of hacking.

I hate to argue the easiest way to do is cast the old gods as mages with limitations-they are more akin to spirits and goetia in the Chronicles paradigm-but, well, it would be the easiest way to do it.

Well, apart from just casting the lot as Horrors(non-Beast).

[Yossarian]

Ascension is definitely the way to go about the gods in America, fallen or ascending as they are. A lot of those same themes are present in American Gods.

Demon fits the new gods quite well (you'd just have to tweak some of the more religious elements, and not all that much), but the old gods? Tough to say.

Yeah, the old gods are my sticking point on an analogue, too. Werewolf kind of fits for superficial reasons, but I feel like there's a little Changeling and Mage, and a dash of Beast.

[ArcaneArts]

It's not the right WoD, but just based on the first episode, I got a very Mage: The Ascension feel off it. Very Traditions vs. Technocracy (I haven't read the book, but my friend and partner both tell me that's a decent enough way of looking at it).

For CofD, I almost got a Werewolf meets Demon feel. I really liked it...

Ascension is definitely the way to go about the gods in America, fallen or ascending as they are. A lot of those same themes are present in American Gods.

Demon fits the new gods quite well (you'd just have to tweak some of the more religious elements, and not all that much), but the old gods? Tough to say.

[Yossarian]

It's not the right WoD, but just based on the first episode, I got a very Mage: The Ascension feel off it. Very Traditions vs. Technocracy (I haven't read the book, but my friend and partner both tell me that's a decent enough way of looking at it).

For CofD, I almost got a Werewolf meets Demon feel. I really liked it...

[wyrdhamster]

Yes, but I was also trying to puzzle whether Scion-style Fate would be something like Hungers or the Monomyth. And the Insatiable might be related to Titans and Titanspawn, since they both represent forces of nature divorced from the human perspective.

Titans and Titanspawn sounds a lot more like Horrors and Begotten in the first place. Remember, the Gods in myths FIGHT with Hydra, Kraken and all the rest of monsters.

EDIT: And making the gods not just Claimed by special Goetia, but something more like the Bargain or the Devouring. A fundamental and two-way change affecting both the human and the Astral entity, the result being neither of the two and more than their sum.

Have good name for this 'something like Bargain or Devouring' for Astral Gods?

[21C Hermit]

That was my idea I mentioned earlier - maybe my lower class of English don't let me to express it. I mentioned Spirits interpretation as also another way of seeing things, giving some thoughts for Werewolf games, for example. But sure, most close relation for Gods involvement would be making them 'superGoetia' that Claim some mortals resonating with them.

Yes, but I was also trying to puzzle whether Scion-style Fate would be something like Hungers or the Monomyth. And the Insatiable might be related to Titans and Titanspawn, since they both represent forces of nature divorced from the human perspective.

EDIT: And making the gods not just Claimed by special Goetia, but something more like the Bargain or the Devouring. A fundamental and two-way change affecting both the human and the Astral entity, the result being neither of the two and more than their sum.

[wyrdhamster]

The only limitation to executing this I can think of is that Goetia have a hard time Manifesting in the physical world, barring Awakened intervention. Perhaps the gods are something more like Beasts, but of the Bright Dream instead of the Primordial?

That was my idea I mentioned earlier - maybe my lower class of English don't let me to express it. I mentioned Spirits interpretation as also another way of seeing things, giving some thoughts for Werewolf games, for example. But sure, most close relation for Gods involvement would be making them 'superGoetia' that Claim some mortals resonating with them.