[2E Dark Eras] Wolf & Raven - Running Hólmganga duels

[wyrdhamster]

I wonder how to run Hólmganga ritual Norse duels by rules of 2E systems. Key point in them is destroying one of three enemy's shields, before final first cut to win duel. This clip from Thirteenth Warrior shows greatly how it should works. 😊

I assume that each sword on sword attack is actually missing the enemy, as you are not hitting shields you should take out to win.

How to model in rules breaking of shields?

[nofather]

How to model in rules breaking of shields?

The same way you model the breaking of any equipment. It has durability and structure. Durability acts as Armor, Structure acts as Health.

[wyrdhamster]

The same way you model the breaking of any equipment. It has durability and structure. Durability acts as Armor, Structure acts as Health.

Quickly checked CoD Rulebook, Hurt Locker and Dark Eras corebook on weapons tables - non have Durability and Structures for various armors. Are there some guidelines in other books how much should Durability and Structure have each equipment?

I assume that general Armor rating of particular armor will be Durability of it. Still, need some guidelines on Structure.

[nofather]

Quickly checked CoD Rulebook, Hurt Locker and Dark Eras corebook on weapons tables - non have Durability and Structures for various armors. Are there some guidelines in other books how much should Durability and Structure have each equipment?

It's on p96 of the Chronicles book. Wood has a Durability of 1, with +1 per reinforced layer. Structure is Durability + Size.

[wyrdhamster]

It's on p96 of the Chronicles book. Wood has a Durability of 1, with +1 per reinforced layer. Structure is Durability + Size.

Thank you! So looking over stats of Shields in Hurt Locker I see some weird things - first, they are in Malee Weapons section. Second. they add to Defense, instead of Armor?

Shields: Few people in the modern day outside of SWAT officers and reenacters use shields. A character wielding a shield defensively adds its Size to her Defense, and uses its Size as a concealment modifier against ranged attacks. Shields can also be used to bash, but cannot be used defensively in the same turn in which they’re used for attack.

Shield (small)
Damage: +0
Initiative: –2
Strength: 2
Size: 2
Availability: ••
Tags: Concealed

Shield (large)
Damage: +2
Initiative: –4
Strength: 3
Size: 3
Availability: •••
Tags: Concealed

So our typical Wooden Small Shield would have Durability 1 and Structure 3, meaning that one attack for 4 Lethals will destroy it in one cut, yes? It seems not very much compared to Small Ax Damage +2 or Swords Damage +3, I must say. It basically mean that 'One Hit = One Shield'...

[nofather]

According to the Gulaþing and Frostaþing laws, a shield should be made of a double layer of wood boards with three iron bands. This gives you an extra layer of wood, and a reinforcement of metal, for Durability of 3, or 5 if you're feeling generous regarding the iron bands. It also increases Structure.

I think the damage a shield takes when blocking blows is not generally going to be considered attacking the shield. Similar to how when you attack someone, you don't roll to see if their clothes survive the fight. You do that if someone's specifically targeting the shield, either to destroy it or strike through it.

[Tessie]

Thank you! So looking over stats of Shields in Hurt Locker I see some weird things - first, they are in Malee Weapons section. Second. they add to Defense, instead of Armor?

They're in Melee because their stat-lines have more in common with melee weapons than armours and firearms. They add defense because they make it more difficult to hit you. No armor rating because a successful use of a shield means the attack doesn't connect with you, unlike how armour works.

[wyrdhamster]

According to the Gulaþing and Frostaþing laws, a shield should be made of a double layer of wood boards with three iron bands. This gives you an extra layer of wood, and a reinforcement of metal, for Durability of 3, or 5 if you're feeling generous regarding the iron bands. It also increases Structure.

I think that using simple +2 from reinforcement ( to Durability 3 ) will be enough - it will be -2 Lethal more per hit attack and +2 Structure - longing fight slightly per one shield. On the other hand, we do not want to get bog down on fighting one shield, where you have all three to pass still.

I think the damage a shield takes when blocking blows is not generally going to be considered attacking the shield. Similar to how when you attack someone, you don't roll to see if their clothes survive the fight. You do that if someone's specifically targeting the shield, either to destroy it or strike through it.

So that each time player need to target shield per attack, not enemy on general? If yes, what modifier would be for targeting only shield?

[nofather]

So that each time player need to target shield per attack, not enemy on general? If yes, what modifier would be for targeting only shield?

Probably Defense not including the shield bonus.

[wyrdhamster]

Probably Defense not including the shield bonus.

So my enemy Norse warrior have Defense 5 and using our Reinforced Small Wooden Shield. To attack his Shield I need to attack with penalty 5 ( as only base Defense ) or 7 ( as Defense + Shield Size )?

[nofather]

Presuming he's still trying to avoid you, and you're effectively targeting the shield, sure.

If this is werewolf you can just use a Gift to destroy it.

[wyrdhamster]

Presuming he's still trying to avoid you, and you're effectively targeting the shield, sure.

So lower number on only Defense? You did not say surely here.

If this is werewolf you can just use a Gift to destroy it.

Wolf & Raven text says it's dishonorable to cheat by werewolves powers in fight with human.

Uratha consider it dishonorable to use Gifts or fetishes in duels with humans, though if silver is used in an einvig all bets are off.

[nofather]

So lower number on only Defense? You did not say surely here.

Yes.

Wolf & Raven text says it's dishonorable to cheat by werewolves powers in fight with human.

That hardly matters. Besides, you haven't said whether this was between werewolves and werewolves or werewolves and humans or werewolves and vampires.

[wyrdhamster]

That hardly matters.

For Honor wanting Uratha I think it does matter. I wonder if using Gifts against humans in duel would be reason to take out dot of Honor from werewolf character?

Besides, you haven't said whether this was between werewolves and werewolves or werewolves and humans or werewolves and vampires.

My nearest instance will be between human and Uratha. But I putted topic in general CoD forum as this question is for anyone running Viking Era games.

[nofather]

For Honor wanting Uratha I think it does matter. I wonder if using Gifts against humans in duel would be reason to take out dot of Honor from werewolf character?

It's not a hard limit, things considered dishonorable happens all the time, even from werewolves with Honor Renown. A werewolf already has a massive advantage in fighting against a human without using magic to destroy their shield, and if humans knew about it they'd cry dishonorable first. Once earned Renown is not taken and that would be a ridiculous reason to shear the soul of a werewolf. A play battle based on societal restraints? If you're going to change the rules and rip out part of a werewolf's soul at least make it happen for something that matters.