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  • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

    ...Exactly. There may be cases where the Fetch is more you than you (you being the Changeling).



    ...I'm not sure your point is coming across? Let's use the example of a movie on DVD. The You is the movie data. When you make a copy, the Copy has the exact same data as the Original (2 Yous). The Original gets scratched. The Copy is thus more accurate (You) than the Original at this point.

    Of course, copies can be burned incorrectly. But we aren't talking about those cases, as the fidelity issues are obvious.

    Okay, my point is that the Fetch used to take your place typically does what it can to earn the trust of everybody you know and care about. It lives your life, but does it better than you would have, so that in the event that you do come looking for revenge, your friends and family are more emotionally invested in the Fetch's protection than your own. There are cases in which the people taken away to Arcadia had pretty crappy lives or personalities before their durance, and came back to find the Fetch turned things around.

    Unless the Changeling was going to make a conscious decision to personally do the same thing prior to their abduction, then the Fetch can not be called their copy, because it did not adhere to the original personality's life choices. It may possess the original's memories, but it chooses to behave differently and is therefor not a perfect duplicate, but a mere imitation.

    A perfect duplicate of the original, who believes that it actually is the original would not make deviant choices. It would make the exact same choices for any given scenario, because it perceives itself as being the real thing and would therefor behave as if it were the real thing.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-08-2017, 07:32 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


      Okay, my point is that the Fetch used to take your place typically does what it can to earn the trust of everybody you know and care about. It lives your life, but does it better than you would have, so that in the event that you do come looking for revenge, your friends and family are more emotionally invested in the Fetch's protection than your own. There are cases in which the people taken away to Arcadia had pretty crappy lives or personalities before their durance, and came back to find the Fetch turned things around.

      Unless the Changeling was going to make a conscious decision to personally do the same thing prior to their abduction, then the Fetch can not be called their copy, because it did not adhere to the original personality's life choices. It may possess the original's memories, but it chooses to behave differently and is therefor not a perfect duplicate, but a mere imitation.

      A perfect duplicate of the original, who believes that it actually is the original would not make deviant choices. It would make the exact same choices for any given scenario, because it perceives itself as being the real thing and would therefor behave as if it were the real thing.
      Ah, I see the misconception. Fetches don't all behave one way. Some continue just as you would because they think they are you. Some know they are Fetches, and react in a variety of ways. Some are cold sociopaths. They vary. A Changeling that assumes they are all the same is in for sorrow.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post



        So, the Changeling kills their "imposter", then tries to continue things as they were 10, 20 years ago? Or, ironically, attempt to "imitate" the person their Fetch was?

        To the outside observer - your friend/family has just been replaced by this alien thing pretending to be the one who you know (and failing, to varying degrees), and they claim they are the "real" one? And you should be fine with this?

        Yeah, that's going to turn out well.
        This isn't clear cut. The Changeling who goes "Fetch == fake. Kill it and take its stuff." may be engaging in the murder of another sentient, and then ruining said sentient's relationships out of a sense of entitlement.

        Remind me again where that sits on the Clarity spectrum (especially in comparison to the Others)?



        Sure, it's viable. But it isn't easy, as pointed out.

        Actually, I just realized an epiphany regarding this easy solution. Changelings don't exactly walk around showing off their true form. Which means they look human to normal people.

        And there's the fact that Fetches revert to their true form in the event of their deaths.

        Soooo, proving your identity should be a simple matter of killing the imposter and showing your friends and family the evidence when the thing they thought was you dissolves into a pile of garbage and viscera.

        "I'm no medical expert, but I'm pretty sure human bodies aren't supposed to do that!"

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        • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
          And there's the fact that Fetches revert to their true form in the event of their deaths.
          Nyr, they revert to their constituent materials at some point after they die. That can be as late as post-burial, which kind of puts a damper on the premature celebration when to all appearances you have simply straight-up murdered a dude who likely looks more like you than you do after an indeterminate amount of time in the time-warping mutagen pit.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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          • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            Nyr, they revert to their constituent materials at some point after they die. That can be as late as post-burial, which kind of puts a damper on the premature celebration when to all appearances you have simply straight-up murdered a dude who likely looks more like you than you do after an indeterminate amount of time in the time-warping mutagen pit.

            Ah, that would make things more difficult, I suppose.

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            • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              Actually, I just realized an epiphany regarding this easy solution. Changelings don't exactly walk around showing off their true form. Which means they look human to normal people.

              And there's the fact that Fetches revert to their true form in the event of their deaths.

              Soooo, proving your identity should be a simple matter of killing the imposter and showing your friends and family the evidence when the thing they thought was you dissolves into a pile of garbage and viscera.

              "I'm no medical expert, but I'm pretty sure human bodies aren't supposed to do that!"
              So, you’re saying if someone showed up tomorrow and killed your wife (or whatever loved one you care to use as the example), and the body turned into leaves and sticks, you’d just welcome their murderer into your home, because they claim to be your real loved one?

              Granted, human bodies aren’t supposed to turn into leaves and sticks, but seeing that happen doesn’t prove the Changeling’s Story is true; all it proves is that there’s some kind of fuckery going on, and you have nothing but the Changeling’s word for it that it wasn’t fuckery on their part. And I don’t know about you, but I’m not particularly inclined to take the word of someone who would murder my loved one (and potentially turn them into leaves and sticks) just to try to prove a point.

              Hell, even if I do believe them, they’re claiming that they’ve been gone for however many years and I’ve been living with the thing that turned into leaves and sticks that whole time. Loving it the whole time. And it’s been loving me the whole time, or at least doing a convincing enough impression of loving me that I can’t tell if it isn’t genuine. It may not have been human, but it was still my loved one, and the person claiming to be my real loved one just fucking murdered it. There is absolutely no way I’m taking that well.
              Last edited by Charlaquin; 11-07-2017, 04:20 AM.


              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

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              • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                So, you’re saying if someone showed up tomorrow and killed your wife (or whatever loved one you care to use as the example), and the body turned into leaves and sticks, you’d just welcome their murderer into your home, because they claim to be your real loved one?
                I would be willing to hear them out, at the very least. They had just provided me with hard, physical evidence of what I could only describe as a supernatural event. Granted, common sense would dictate that I try to defend the imposter until after I saw the unnatural remains. But once they dissolved into refuse, I'd quickly demand an explanation.

                The concept of somebody being forcibly changed into a magical creature isn't that unbelievable. The story is plastered all over supernatural folk lore from nearly every religion, culture and ethnicity.

                If somebody told me that those close to me were magical imposters and had some way to prove their claims, I would reconsider my stance on thinking they were crazy.

                Come to think of it, the idea of a Fetch and fairy abductions is exactly what the IRL changeling mythos is all about. Fairies steal somebody away and replace them with a disguised creature. Considering that I've heard about such things happening in other parts of the world, I'd probably have an easier time adjusting to the situation than somebody who has absolutely no idea what's going on.
                Last edited by Nyrufa; 11-07-2017, 04:57 AM.

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                • You probably want to get your explanation in first.


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                  • ...you guys are acting as if it's normal for human person to act rationally while under extreme emotional distress.

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                    • Originally posted by Weird View Post
                      ...you guys are acting as if it's normal for human person to act rationally while under extreme emotional distress.
                      Is it normal for any sentient being to do so? Even the supernatural need a supernatural edge to help with that


                      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                      • Well, yeah, the obvious reaction to encountering the supernatural for the first time isn't going to be "Oh, hey, monsters are real... that's neat."

                        But the rate at which people adjust to the situation would be more of a personal case by case basis.

                        Being diagnosed with a variety of psychological and social problems would probably make the adjustment process 'easier' than it would for healthy individuals.

                        Like I said in the 'You As A' threads, I've always wished to encounter stuff like this in the real world. I was a a true believer in magic during my youth and even now, I still have hope in its possible existence. And after the initial shock of "holy shit, magic!" wore off, I'd probably be very curious to learn as much as possible about the world I'd just been exposed to. And I'm not about to chase off my first and presumably only source of information on the subject.

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                        • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

                          I would be willing to hear them out, at the very least. They had just provided me with hard, physical evidence of what I could only describe as a supernatural event. Granted, common sense would dictate that I try to defend the imposter until after I saw the unnatural remains. But once they dissolved into refuse, I'd quickly demand an explanation.

                          The concept of somebody being forcibly changed into a magical creature isn't that unbelievable. The story is plastered all over supernatural folk lore from nearly every religion, culture and ethnicity.

                          If somebody told me that those close to me were magical imposters and had some way to prove their claims, I would reconsider my stance on thinking they were crazy.

                          Come to think of it, the idea of a Fetch and fairy abductions is exactly what the IRL changeling mythos is all about. Fairies steal somebody away and replace them with a disguised creature. Considering that I've heard about such things happening in other parts of the world, I'd probably have an easier time adjusting to the situation than somebody who has absolutely no idea what's going on.
                          A Mage would have a really easy time getting away with murdering people you care about, then,


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                          Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                          • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

                            The concept of somebody being forcibly changed into a magical creature isn't that unbelievable. The story is plastered all over supernatural folk lore from nearly every religion, culture and ethnicity.
                            And whose to say that isn't what just happened to your love one right in front of you, turning them into a pile of leaves and sticks? Why would you trust the new doppleganger rather than the one you have been with?


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                            • 'I kind of miss old Nyrufa. New Nyrufa constantly complains about being tortured for what seems like an eternity by the Bell King and how we'll never understand what it's like. Plus his new friends are so creepy.'

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                              • Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post

                                And whose to say that isn't what just happened to your love one right in front of you, turning them into a pile of leaves and sticks? Why would you trust the new doppleganger rather than the one you have been with?
                                Well, sure, that is a possibility, but it's not an idea that I'm familiar with. Having a doppleganger switched out when I wasn't paying attention makes sense. Having a doppleganger perform the switch right in front of my eyes doesn't. I know the Fae are supposed to be crazy, but that plan just sounds like they're trying too hard.

                                Originally posted by nofather View Post
                                'I kind of miss old Nyrufa. New Nyrufa constantly complains about being tortured for what seems like an eternity by the Bell King and how we'll never understand what it's like. Plus his new friends are so creepy.'



                                I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean.


                                Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                                A Mage would have a really easy time getting away with murdering people you care about, then,
                                I think that would apply to everybody on the planet.
                                Last edited by Nyrufa; 11-07-2017, 03:40 PM.

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