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Sleight Of Hand merit and supernatural senses.

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  • Sleight Of Hand merit and supernatural senses.

    How do y'all feel about the sleight of hand merit being used against folks who have supernatural senses? Does it still work? Is it still automatic?
    Last edited by HelloMyNameIs; 07-06-2017, 06:57 PM.

  • #2
    What do you mean by supernatural senses?


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Heightened senses, such as wolf senses. Or.. I don't know what else there is but I know there is a myriad of heightened senses abilities. Mage sight and awareness, wolf senses.. I think vamps have one, too?

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      • #4
        Wolf Senses is represented as a minimal bonus to perception rolls and special tracking abilities. Mage Sight would actually make it harder to notice a mundane sleight-of-hands since the mage is bombarded Supernal Symbolism. Vampires can notice the Predatory Aura of other vampires, which isn't relevant in this case. They also have a Merit called Acute Senses that can quite quickly raise perception dice pools to superhuman levels. In that case I'd call for a contested roll.
        Last edited by Tessie; 07-06-2017, 07:55 PM.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #5
          Quickened Sight devotion might stop it, and maybe the new elder devotion that allows you to completely avoid danger. Auspex alone probably not.

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          • #6
            Auspex doesn't do anything to your senses in 2E. You contact your Beast who gathers the information for you. And you can only do it after the fact since it's an Instant Action to activate Auspex.
            Only certain Devotions based on Auspex alters how your perception works, such as those you named.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              Impossible Spoor would likely negate it.

              Let it work normally unless there's specifically an activated power that works against it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HelloMyNameIs View Post
                Heightened senses, such as wolf senses. Or.. I don't know what else there is but I know there is a myriad of heightened senses abilities. Mage sight and awareness, wolf senses.. I think vamps have one, too?
                Mage sight usually revolves around supernatural phenomena. Impossible spoor might notice that an item is missing and who took it, but it'd be harder unless it's not a personal item being carried by the character (Why would a werewolf care for the guy taking a few bucks from the beggar's hat instead of putting in his bill?)

                The thing about sleight of hand, at least in real life is that it works first by distracting the mark somehow so they never have time to notice there's something missing.

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                • #9
                  On the one hand, seeing movement is something that wolf senses explicitly make werewolves very good at. On the other, most of them don't keep them turned on all the time in human form.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    On the one hand, seeing movement is something that wolf senses explicitly make werewolves very good at. On the other, most of them don't keep them turned on all the time in human form.
                    Wolves see movement well, granted; but they aren't chamaleons: they can't look at two different places at the same time. Sleight of Hand accounts for this on the very grounds of creating a diversion in order to snatch the item unimpeeded.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Malus View Post

                      Wolves see movement well, granted; but they aren't chamaleons: they can't look at two different places at the same time. Sleight of Hand accounts for this on the very grounds of creating a diversion in order to snatch the item unimpeeded.
                      Crap, now I totally want were chameleons to be a thing.


                      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                      • #12
                        Honestly, I think this all goes under the "unless someone is trying specifically to catch her" clause. There are no passive perception powers in any game that I'm aware of. A supernatural could invoke their supernatural senses, but that tends to be in reaction to something that's already happened, or you're looking for something specific. A mage could create an anti-theft spell, but that really falls under "trying to catch" as far as I'm concerned.

                        So, yes, the merit works fine.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MCN View Post
                          Honestly, I think this all goes under the "unless someone is trying specifically to catch her" clause. There are no passive perception powers in any game that I'm aware of. A supernatural could invoke their supernatural senses, but that tends to be in reaction to something that's already happened, or you're looking for something specific. A mage could create an anti-theft spell, but that really falls under "trying to catch" as far as I'm concerned.

                          So, yes, the merit works fine.

                          What would y'all say to the idea that some supernatural senses and certain sense-based powers "count as specifically trying to catch her" under the merit's rules?
                          Last edited by HelloMyNameIs; 07-07-2017, 10:45 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Which ones? Because as far as I'm aware, general perception bonuses definitely shouldn't count. So, that leaves out most vampire merits / powers, werewolf bonuses, promethean abilities, playtest 'ling stuff, demon stuff, and beast stuff. Mages can always make something specific, but I can't think of anything general that even they would likely be casually using.

                            Last edited by MCN; 07-07-2017, 10:53 AM.

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                            • #15
                              To me, it seems like the book takes into account supernaturals by way of the larceny skill itself. Supernaturals still have to roll to notice larceny, regardless of if they have powers active, via the core GMC book. So it seems to me that the merit itself is written fine, and accounts for these things.

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