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Empyrean: the Redemption [Collaborative fansplat]

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Killerclown View Post

    ​So far I have this idea. They still want mankind to become like the Empyreans, as to make Earth, in their view, a utopia. Of course, they would want to recruit Empyreans into their corporation. The problem facing me right now is, how to recruit Empyreans without them being pissed or decapitating a scientist.
    That is a problem...unless they have a way to identify and collect Empyrean right after an Epiphany, then you're going to have a hard time not taking an Empyrean by force.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SaulottheGentle View Post
      I'm quite interested on where the Terminology comes from. One part of me can't help but wonder if some of the terms are Babylonian, the part of me that remembers Demigod sees that some of the terms are Latin and Greek. But the part of me that is a huge Bayonetta fan thinks it sees some Enochian. Teloah, Etharzi and Ors stand out in particular.

      I'm also interested on the relationship between the human and divine halves of the Empyreans. Is it possible for the Divine and Mortal halves to communicate with one another, some what like how let's say how Yami Yugi and Yugi do in the anime Yugioh? Or is it like indirect messages and what not?

      I love how Designs and Revelations seem to be worked out as of yet as well as Authority. How will Spheres be divided? Will they be similar to how Domains were in Demigod?

      And finally, the obligatory question of will there be Google docs to view progress and whatnot?
      Well, in order:

      The names of the Aspects, Etharzi, Vonpho and Materializations are Enochian. Astra comes from the Hindu tradition, where an Astra is a weapon created from a god's power (e.g Brahmastra etc).

      For the relationship between the two halves, they're not as... separate as a Geist and their Bound or a Beast and their Horror. It's more like... Well, you know how in the psychodynamic model of the mind you have the Id, the Ego and the Superego? The part of you that's Celestial adds on as something like a fourth section, mostly subconscious but with some conscious elements. Saying that you 'communicate' with the Celestial is like saying that your Ego communicates with your Superego. They're both you. Empyrean often find themselves slipping into - from the human perspective - odd trains of thought, especially as Onus falls. They get moments like when you look at your hand for long enough that it loses its 'handness' and just looks really odd. Things flow into each other, becoming a seamless whole of roadbuildingwindowdoorperson. That's part of why Daemons can't really relate to humans. They're just kinda part of the background.

      Spheres are intended to remain much the same as Domains in Demigod: freely-designed conceptual 'spheres of influence'. They can't be too wide (e.g. Matter, Atoms, Energy, Emotions, Thoughts) and tend to be quite specific (e.g. Genius, Rivers, Forests).

      And yes, there should be links to GDocs posted when we get around to the stage that we have them. For the moment, pretty much all we've got are notes, a few quotes to insert where appropriate (there's a Dark Souls 3 quote in there) and an incomplete glossary. So far we've pretty much just been hashing out what we want to do with the thing.

      Originally posted by Killerclown View Post
      ​So far I have this idea. They still want mankind to become like the Empyreans, as to make Earth, in their view, a utopia. Of course, they would want to recruit Empyreans into their corporation. The problem facing me right now is, how to recruit Empyreans without them being pissed or decapitating a scientist.
      Hmm. Well, for the recruiting you have to remember that Empyreans in general are not well-adjusted, functional people, by and large. They're open enough to perceive the Celestial in their deepest moment of despair precisely because they're broken. Even afterwards, with newfound powers and confidence, old habits of complacency and going-with-the-flow can be hard to break. That sort of thing can be exploited. As for not getting your scientists decapitated? Treat them well. Make them think you're helping them. Give them responsibility, build their trust in themselves while all the while tying them ever-closer to you. It's psychologically difficult to go against people that you're close to, especially when those people also at least appear to have authority on you. Go look up the Milgram study if you need proof.

      EDIT: Concurring with hellovg , recruiting an established Empyrean is going to take one hell of a debate, and you'll have to be veeeery careful about where you take that. Force is... unlikely to work unless you have a Baetylus, an Empyrean of your own or similar to back you up.

      You might also want to define what their 'utopia' is and how they intend to attain it. Asking their 'employed' Empyrean to make Enkidu when they can seems like something they would do, as would encouraging the conception of demigods.
      Last edited by ajf115; 09-18-2017, 03:00 AM.


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      • #18
        Loving it guys!Question: are there specific powers for each aspect?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
          Loving it guys!Question: are there specific powers for each aspect?
          Yes, each Aspect helps determine what kind of Spheres an Empyrean has, at least to begin with.

          Expanding on this, a Reborn's Aspect and the Archetypes attached to their Peripsol are comparable to a changeling's seeming and kith. The Empyrean's Aspect helps determine overall powers, and the Archetypes bring in specialized powers and bonuses.

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          • #20
            Guys,what is the Redemption mentioned in the game title?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
              Guys,what is the Redemption mentioned in the game title?
              Each Empyrean has the bones-deep knowledge that the world is meant to be better than this and that they - or the part of them that was once a Celestial - was somehow responsible, at least in part. This guilt is endemic to the template. Every Empyrean feels it, one way or another, and seeks to somehow make up for that primordial failing. The Creeds are philosophies about how they can achieve that redemption. The Titanes, for example, believe that in the Time Before they somehow failed to use their power responsibly, while the Descended Masters believe that they were too rigid, and the strain their desire to keep things the same placed upon the ever-changing world is what cause it to fall. Even the Outer Gods seek some kind of 'redemption', although theirs is more like a restart rather than fixing things.


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              • #22
                This whole idea that the magnitude of their powers places vast responsibility on the Empyrean even as they know that they have had this kind of power before and failed is intended to be the central 'horror' of the game. You have power, and it's so very easy to hurt so many people with it. It's a 'world of cardboard' situation.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                  This whole idea that the magnitude of their powers places vast responsibility on the Empyrean even as they know that they have had this kind of power before and failed is intended to be the central 'horror' of the game. You have power, and it's so very easy to hurt so many people with it. It's a 'world of cardboard' situation.

                  Not to drag down the discussion, but isn't that the horror of Mage too?


                  A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                  • #24
                    Kind of, but with a different focus. Empyrean is intended to be more personal and less intellectual with that horror. It's not a case of 'some ancient mages screwed up and you could screw up too', it's a case of 'YOU screwed up so badly that you broke the world and you could do so again'. Mage is about wisdom and knowing that your power doesn't give you the right to rule. Empyrean is about knowing that your power does give you a right to rule, but not the right to do what you want. Kings must serve their people, even as they are served in turn. People naturally follow Empyrean, simply because they can't help but be larger than life.

                    I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well. I'm tired.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                      Kind of, but with a different focus. Empyrean is intended to be more personal and less intellectual with that horror. It's not a case of 'some ancient mages screwed up and you could screw up too', it's a case of 'YOU screwed up so badly that you broke the world and you could do so again'. Mage is about wisdom and knowing that your power doesn't give you the right to rule. Empyrean is about knowing that your power does give you a right to rule, but not the right to do what you want. Kings must serve their people, even as they are served in turn. People naturally follow Empyrean, simply because they can't help but be larger than life.

                      I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well. I'm tired.
                      Maybe a Game of Regal Responsibilities?

                      Thought of a good Masquerade Enforcement: most Egregores enforce the veil of secrecy themselves, as the culture of the CofD is all about denying the supernatural's existence. To accept that gods not only exist but may be the local barista would be such a change that the vast shift would result in new Egregores-and the extinction of nearly all living ones. So, blatant use results in an army of Tulpa to clean up and suppress the mess-and then the Empyrean that provoked then.

                      Really, Egregores are friendly, until you do anything that might disturb the culture and change it drastically. Which is what anyone who would be fun to play does.

                      (Side note: I think it should be possible for Tulpa to rebel, but then they stop being Tulpa; as beings who define their own existence, they become Baetlyus, Demigods, and monsters of myth.)

                      Another thing: the Defiled Shrine does accept their own culpability; to them, humans are a lot like the impovrished poacher who hunts elephants to feed his family; he kills an endangered beast, but he's just trying to survive in a desperate situation. The real villains are the black marketers who sell the ivory, and the people who forced him into this sorry state. The Shrine feels they were the latter, so self-involved and greedy they taught humanity what they did instead of what they said. It's for this reason they are the most warlike when it comes to Horrors-to them, the Outer Gods seem to be gleefully embracing all the qualities they despise out of shamelessness.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Leliel View Post

                        Maybe a Game of Regal Responsibilities?
                        I like the idea, but I'm not so sure about that tagline. Perhaps A Game of Divine Right and Human Consequences? What do you think, hellovg ?

                        Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                        Thought of a good Masquerade Enforcement: most Egregores enforce the veil of secrecy themselves, as the culture of the CofD is all about denying the supernatural's existence. To accept that gods not only exist but may be the local barista would be such a change that the vast shift would result in new Egregores-and the extinction of nearly all living ones. So, blatant use results in an army of Tulpa to clean up and suppress the mess-and then the Empyrean that provoked then.

                        Really, Egregores are friendly, until you do anything that might disturb the culture and change it drastically. Which is what anyone who would be fun to play does.
                        Hmm. So have Egregore as less nihilistic and more incapable of doing anything but furthering their status quo? That's an interesting idea, although it would mean that we would have to make Egregore less obvious in their operations, so they don't break the Masquerade in their attempts at 'correction'.

                        Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                        (Side note: I think it should be possible for Tulpa to rebel, but then they stop being Tulpa; as beings who define their own existence, they become Baetlyus, Demigods, and monsters of myth.)
                        The idea of rebel Tulpa would be interesting, but I really don't know what they would become. Perhaps it depends on what kind of thing they were to begin with. If they were animalistic or monstrous they sublimate into the Astral and take on a life there, while more human-like Tulpa become some kind of human-like micro template? They wouldn't become demigods. Demigods and Tulpa are very different types of thing.

                        Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                        Another thing: the Defiled Shrine does accept their own culpability; to them, humans are a lot like the impovrished poacher who hunts elephants to feed his family; he kills an endangered beast, but he's just trying to survive in a desperate situation. The real villains are the black marketers who sell the ivory, and the people who forced him into this sorry state. The Shrine feels they were the latter, so self-involved and greedy they taught humanity what they did instead of what they said. It's for this reason they are the most warlike when it comes to Horrors-to them, the Outer Gods seem to be gleefully embracing all the qualities they despise out of shamelessness.
                        Huh. That's a very nice way of putting it.


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                        • #27
                          I want to know more about Pillars, like how would the Pillars look like to mortals and Empyreans, where they would be metaphysically, could a mortal go to the base of the Pillar or something like that?
                          ​And if they are taken from holy places, would places like Jerusalem or Vatican City be Pillars, and could the beliefs and such affect the Pillars appearance?
                          ​And my last question is that it says that they can use the Pillars to scale up it to get to the Heavens easier how would they do that and if they could wouldn't the Undefiled Celestials stop them or guard the Pillars by most likely not themselves but their agents?

                          ​By the way I'm new to the Forum so I don't know how to Quote things sorry.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                            I like the idea, but I'm not so sure about that tagline. Perhaps A Game of Divine Right and Human Consequences? What do you think, hellovg ?
                            I don't know--"Divine Right" doesn't sound right to me, because it implies that the world and its citizens should be subject to the Empyrean, and the Empyrean subject to no one, which isn't the case at all. They were the undisputed authority once, yes, but they screwed it up, and are now forced to bond to inconsequential people in order to even have a glimmer of hope of reclaiming what they once had.

                            As for "human consequences"...well that seems okay, if a bit mundane.

                            To me, this is a game of fallen grace; of owning up to the wrongs of the past and trying to make them right. The memories are vague and hard to understand, yes, but that's no excuse--the point is in trying to work towards a brighter day because you helped bring about the long night. Even if you don't know what's exactly 'right', you work against what you know for a fact is WRONG.

                            To me, the game's tagline is more along the lines of "A game of lost glory, and rebirth."

                            Admittedly that may sound a bit pretentious, but let me know what you guys think.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Da13thHellblazer View Post
                              I want to know more about Pillars, like how would the Pillars look like to mortals and Empyreans, where they would be metaphysically, could a mortal go to the base of the Pillar or something like that?
                              ​And if they are taken from holy places, would places like Jerusalem or Vatican City be Pillars, and could the beliefs and such affect the Pillars appearance?
                              ​And my last question is that it says that they can use the Pillars to scale up it to get to the Heavens easier how would they do that and if they could wouldn't the Undefiled Celestials stop them or guard the Pillars by most likely not themselves but their agents?

                              ​By the way I'm new to the Forum so I don't know how to Quote things sorry.


                              Pillars look like ordinary places to mortals and even other supernaturals, but they all have a powerful feel to them. To the Reborn, they are places of vibrating energy and breathtaking polychromatic light. They are spots where Od coalesces--a criss-crossing of Odic "ley lines"--into areas of energetic "hot springs" all across the world. They can be potentially anywhere, and while many are stable, many come and go quite erratically as the flow of Od shifts across the earth.

                              They can cover localized areas, but are never as big as a city. So, while Jerusalem wouldn't be a Pillar, the Well of Souls could be. Mortals and other supernaturals may visit, and definitely pick up on something odd, but few except the Empyrean can actually use Pillars to any great extent. Some mortals and supernaturals may trigger events and unusual powers and visions in a Pillar (many Baetylus have come from interactions with Pillars) but they're almost always by accident.

                              Belief shapes Pillars, in both look and feel, due to the fact that Pillars are formed from the nexus of multiple "rivers" of Od, and thus are dependent on what kind of Od is flowing through it.

                              Finally, Empyrean may access the Heavens by themselves, it just takes days of meditation and introspection. Pillars just make the process leagues easier, and allows multiple Empyrean to enter the Heavens together where they'd be alone otherwise. Furthermore, entering the Heavens is no crime. An Empyrean's ability to enter the Heavens, to remain there, and to scale the heights of it is entirely dependent on the Reborn's level of Communion, Onus, and general necessity. The Undefiled Celestials aren't likely to block the Empyrean either, unless something is incredibly wrong--Undefiled Celestials most assuredly exist, but whether their antagonistic, beneficial, or indifferent is not really clear.

                              Oh, and if you want to quote some one, just click the "quote" option down at the bottom of the post boxes.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by hellovg View Post



                                Belief shapes Pillars, in both look and feel, due to the fact that Pillars are formed from the nexus of multiple "rivers" of Od, and thus are dependent on what kind of Od is flowing through it.
                                Can you go into more detail about what Od is? And what does an Empyrean feel when harvesting it?

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