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Empyrean: the Redemption [Collaborative fansplat]

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    Can you go into more detail about what Od is? And what does an Empyrean feel when harvesting it?
    Od is somewhat nebulous, but you could probably best define it as 'that which moves the world'. It is inherent in everything that brings change to existence, from the heat of a fire to a revolutionary's words to the division of the zygote into the first two cells of an infant. However, it exists in many states, layered atop one another, and the culmination of all of these layered states is existence. The Undefiled Celestials are composed of the deepest, most fundamental 'state' of Od, that of primal concepts, while the Od which the Empyrean most often harvest is the Od inherent in the actions of people.

    Between the 'solid' states of Od that make up and drive existence there are 'free flowing' layers as well. These are more subtle and usually have little effect on anything, existing only as 'rivers' power. Some Empyrean hypothesize that these are analogous to blood vessels of the cosmos, nourishing the more 'set' states. Where Od pools in the same location in several of these 'fluid layers', though, it is drawn to itself and 'bores' holes through the more solid ones, allowing them to bleed into each other and for power to flow from one state to another, instead of only in one. These sites are Pillars.

    As for what it's like to absorb it, think of how you 'drink in' a masterwork of music and feel somehow refreshed afterwards. It's kind of like that, mixed with the 'ahhhh...' feeling of getting into a bath at just the right temperature. The Od suffuses the body of the Empyrean in a flow of comfortable, rejuvenating warmth and they feel alive. Having a good store of Od feels like a constant warmth of a good hot chocolate in your chest, radiating outwards and bringing feeling into your limbs. Going without it is the reverse. You feel cold at your extremities and there's a subtle, uncomfortable tugging at the centre of your chest, as if there's a hole there that can't be filled. AS you go without Od for longer, you start to become weaker and lose feeling in your extremities even as you age at an accelerated rate.

    Mind you, all of this isn't set as of yet. It's essentially just notes and ideas. The thought was that the 'Heavens' could be the aforementioned 'states' of Od, and 'ascending' them is less a matter of travelling from one place to another and more one of transitioning oneself from a physical state into the state of that Heaven you wish to reach. In the Heaven of Fate, you exist as a living destiny - your own. In the Heaven of Soul, you are your bared soul. In the Celestial Heaven, you are your Domains, a living, breathing embodiment of Fire and Craftsmanship. We're not entirely sure how to represent this mechanically, nor do we know exactly what Heavens there should be.


    Comment


    • #32
      I'll try to keep my comments short and sweet, but I have a tendency to ramble.
      I like what I see. Good concept and preliminary rough out.
      I've done a couple "fansplats" myself and have deep seated opinions on their creation method, but they are just opinions.
      Game mechanics and design strategies are what interest me most. Most of my comments will likely be in that area.


      Lexicon
      It is never to early for a Lexicon/Glossary/Summary page. I realize that most everything is defined, but a quick lookup "sheet" would help keep things straight (for me at least).
      This can probably wait for the Google docs, but a quick post would help. It will also keep everyone on the same page when changes occur (they always do).
      Keep it short. Keep it up-to-date. On the forums, I used to keep mine in a "Spoilers" subset copied into most posts. People can look at it easily and don't have to refer back to a previous page.

      Splats
      While I don't have a suggestion for it yet, 1 or 2 more Aspects (X-Splats) would be nice to have. 4 feels too limiting at this point. Not necessarily keepers, but for ideas to help create the game.
      You can always incorporate or throw away an Aspect or two later, but when you are starting out you should have "too many". This goes for the Y-Splat as well. Otherwise, when something changes down the line and you have to throw out one of them because it doesn't fit any more, you might be scrambling for a replacement.

      Powers
      I'm a bit confused on the structure of the "powers". Can you define their "order" and possible subsets a bit more?

      Example Character
      Do you have an idea for an example character yet? Something to show how everything is planned to fit together.


      Feel free to ignore any and all of the above.
      If you want me to shut up, PM me to do so and no bad feelings will be had.
      I probably won't be able help a whole lot. I'm actually going to try to get back in to working on my Psychic: The Gifted fansplat. I've abandoned it for too long.


      Did you miss me?
      I'm back! Long hiatus from the forums. Hope I didn't miss much.
      Here's where I've been keeping my stuff.
      http://evosworkshop.wikidot.com/
      I made "Demon the Return" and "Psychic the Gifted" is in progress.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
        I'll try to keep my comments short and sweet, but I have a tendency to ramble.
        I like what I see. Good concept and preliminary rough out.
        I've done a couple "fansplats" myself and have deep seated opinions on their creation method, but they are just opinions.
        Game mechanics and design strategies are what interest me most. Most of my comments will likely be in that area.


        Lexicon
        It is never to early for a Lexicon/Glossary/Summary page. I realize that most everything is defined, but a quick lookup "sheet" would help keep things straight (for me at least).
        This can probably wait for the Google docs, but a quick post would help. It will also keep everyone on the same page when changes occur (they always do).
        Keep it short. Keep it up-to-date. On the forums, I used to keep mine in a "Spoilers" subset copied into most posts. People can look at it easily and don't have to refer back to a previous page.

        Splats
        While I don't have a suggestion for it yet, 1 or 2 more Aspects (X-Splats) would be nice to have. 4 feels too limiting at this point. Not necessarily keepers, but for ideas to help create the game.
        You can always incorporate or throw away an Aspect or two later, but when you are starting out you should have "too many". This goes for the Y-Splat as well. Otherwise, when something changes down the line and you have to throw out one of them because it doesn't fit any more, you might be scrambling for a replacement.

        Powers
        I'm a bit confused on the structure of the "powers". Can you define their "order" and possible subsets a bit more?

        Example Character
        Do you have an idea for an example character yet? Something to show how everything is planned to fit together.


        Feel free to ignore any and all of the above.
        If you want me to shut up, PM me to do so and no bad feelings will be had.
        I probably won't be able help a whole lot. I'm actually going to try to get back in to working on my Psychic: The Gifted fansplat. I've abandoned it for too long.
        Great suggestions! We'll get right to work on a lexicon.

        For splats, when it comes to gods, there can be a lot of overlap, so we were going to keep the "flavors" a little generic, while the archetypes would help flesh them out a bit more--a sort of 'build your own splat' type dealio. All the same, I have been batting around the idea of a "heaven" and "earth" x-splat.

        We're still working on the powers and the mechanics therein. We would love to have a little help with that!

        Unfortunately this work isn't fleshed out enough to have an example character out yet, but we'll definitely post it when we do!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by hellovg View Post
          We're still working on the powers and the mechanics therein. We would love to have a little help with that!
          You should probably start out with a "Powers Layout". This would help me and others design the powers. Either take the first one you have already created and strip it out to a generic template, or just create a generic template.

          For Example:

          NameOfPower
          ShortFluffDescriptionParagraphOrTwo
          Cost: XXX
          Dice Pool: XXX + YYY + ZZZ
          Action: XXX
          Target: XXX
          Duration: XXX
          MechanicalDescriptionParagraphOrTwo
          On a Botch, DescriptionOfABotchParagraph
          Exceptional Success, DescriptionOfExceptionalSuccessParagraph
          I like to remove the spaces in the generic descriptions so I can easily double click to replace the whole thing. Makes it easier.
          Put whatever you need into the template. If Dice Pool doesn't change for different powers, maybe it doesn't need to be there.
          But remember, it is much easier to delete later than to insert. So, you might want to leave in some things you are unsure need to be there.

          This generic template helps keep everything similar so there isn't a lot of editing later and everyone will know what is required for this type of entry.
          The template also helps alleviate the "blank page syndrome" of not knowing where to start.

          I use these templates for a lot of things. X and Y Splats, Merits, Powers, Etc. It is much easier to create a new something-or-other using a template.
          I recommend creating these generic templates for anything you still need to make in multiples.


          Did you miss me?
          I'm back! Long hiatus from the forums. Hope I didn't miss much.
          Here's where I've been keeping my stuff.
          http://evosworkshop.wikidot.com/
          I made "Demon the Return" and "Psychic the Gifted" is in progress.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            Lexicon
            It is never to early for a Lexicon/Glossary/Summary page. I realize that most everything is defined, but a quick lookup "sheet" would help keep things straight (for me at least).
            This can probably wait for the Google docs, but a quick post would help. It will also keep everyone on the same page when changes occur (they always do).
            Keep it short. Keep it up-to-date. On the forums, I used to keep mine in a "Spoilers" subset copied into most posts. People can look at it easily and don't have to refer back to a previous page.
            Well, you asked and you shall receive. Here's a commentable link to our quickly-assembled lexicon. I'll be putting another one in the initial post.

            https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            Splats
            While I don't have a suggestion for it yet, 1 or 2 more Aspects (X-Splats) would be nice to have. 4 feels too limiting at this point. Not necessarily keepers, but for ideas to help create the game.
            You can always incorporate or throw away an Aspect or two later, but when you are starting out you should have "too many". This goes for the Y-Splat as well. Otherwise, when something changes down the line and you have to throw out one of them because it doesn't fit any more, you might be scrambling for a replacement.
            A while back we toyed with the idea for a 'Balance' Aspect, but it seemed out of place. Like those elemental schemes where you have fire, air, earth water and then 'light and shadow' or 'love' or something equally SoD-breaking. We also had an idea that instead of Aspects we could have the X-Splat correspond to certain archetypes of divinity: Earth-mother, Sky-father and so on, but there was just too many, so we turned that into Archetypes. The idea is that Archetypes serve as a kind of combined Virtue/Vice thing and the second portion of a Changeling-style 'make-your-own-X-splat' thing where you use Aspect to show the general 'direction' of your Empyrean and then refine that with specific Archetypes.

            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            Powers
            I'm a bit confused on the structure of the "powers". Can you define their "order" and possible subsets a bit more?
            I confess, I'm a little confused by what you're asking but I'll give it a go.

            The things you actually have dots in are Spheres, which are kind of like Arcana, but more specific to certain things. Spheres passively give you Authority, which is an honorary spirit Rank when you're dealing with spirits related to your Spheres. Spheres can then be actively applied to the world as either Designs, which are subtle, medium-to-long-term powers which afflict large areas or numbers of people with... fates, I guess you could say (e.g. "You will be plagued by storms", "You will find love" etc) or as Revelations, which are brief (at most scene-long) and dramatic 'miracles'.

            Astra are like magical items that are permanently attached to you with independent magical abilities, but which you can only use if you're in one of your divine forms. Unless you've manifested them physically, which means lowering your upper limit on Communion.

            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            Example Character
            Do you have an idea for an example character yet? Something to show how everything is planned to fit together.
            Not especially. I have a vague idea for the guy who's going to be the main character of the chapter fiction, though, who'll probably end up being that example character.

            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            Feel free to ignore any and all of the above.
            If you want me to shut up, PM me to do so and no bad feelings will be had.
            I probably won't be able help a whole lot. I'm actually going to try to get back in to working on my Psychic: The Gifted fansplat. I've abandoned it for too long.
            Oooh. I remember that fansplat. I wish you luck with it.

            While I remember, how did you get your character sheet done up? And, for that matter, your PDF formatting.

            Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
            You should probably start out with a "Powers Layout". This would help me and others design the powers. Either take the first one you have already created and strip it out to a generic template, or just create a generic template.

            For Example:

            I like to remove the spaces in the generic descriptions so I can easily double click to replace the whole thing. Makes it easier.
            Put whatever you need into the template. If Dice Pool doesn't change for different powers, maybe it doesn't need to be there.
            But remember, it is much easier to delete later than to insert. So, you might want to leave in some things you are unsure need to be there.

            This generic template helps keep everything similar so there isn't a lot of editing later and everyone will know what is required for this type of entry.
            The template also helps alleviate the "blank page syndrome" of not knowing where to start.

            I use these templates for a lot of things. X and Y Splats, Merits, Powers, Etc. It is much easier to create a new something-or-other using a template.
            I recommend creating these generic templates for anything you still need to make in multiples.
            Thanks for the advice. I'm not entirely sure how we'll structure Designs, but Revelations will probably be fairly bog-standard.


            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
              While I remember, how did you get your character sheet done up? And, for that matter, your PDF formatting.
              I use Microsoft Excel to create the Character Sheet.
              Wingdings for the dots, circles and squares.
              Graphics can be inserted directly or put in the header/footer section.
              There is usually an "Export to PDF" feature, or you can install a PDF printer driver to "Print to PDF".
              All editing is done before PDF creation. I usually have to export it to PDF a few times while adjusting height and width until it fits the 8.5x11 PDF correctly.

              I use Microsoft Word for the "book" and use most of the same functions above.
              Two column formatting gives it the same look as the real books.
              Mr. Gone used to have all the WoD fonts (and maybe he still does). I usually install all of them.

              Without a PDF editor (like Adobe Professional), I don't think you can make a form-fillable character sheet in PDF.
              Gone uses an older version of Adobe Professional to make his. I've never tried. Maybe I'll ask him to make a form-fillable sheet one of these days.
              I use a custom form-fillable Excel sheet that I reverse-engineered from one I found online (search for "Excel character sheet vampire") and it works great.

              Open Office will probably work as well, but I haven't used it.


              Did you miss me?
              I'm back! Long hiatus from the forums. Hope I didn't miss much.
              Here's where I've been keeping my stuff.
              http://evosworkshop.wikidot.com/
              I made "Demon the Return" and "Psychic the Gifted" is in progress.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                I use Microsoft Excel to create the Character Sheet.
                Wingdings for the dots, circles and squares.
                Graphics can be inserted directly or put in the header/footer section.
                There is usually an "Export to PDF" feature, or you can install a PDF printer driver to "Print to PDF".
                All editing is done before PDF creation. I usually have to export it to PDF a few times while adjusting height and width until it fits the 8.5x11 PDF correctly.

                I use Microsoft Word for the "book" and use most of the same functions above.
                Two column formatting gives it the same look as the real books.
                Mr. Gone used to have all the WoD fonts (and maybe he still does). I usually install all of them.

                Without a PDF editor (like Adobe Professional), I don't think you can make a form-fillable character sheet in PDF.
                Gone uses an older version of Adobe Professional to make his. I've never tried. Maybe I'll ask him to make a form-fillable sheet one of these days.
                I use a custom form-fillable Excel sheet that I reverse-engineered from one I found online (search for "Excel character sheet vampire") and it works great.

                Open Office will probably work as well, but I haven't used it.
                Thanks. Did the explanation of the powers make sense? I'm never quite sure whether I'm getting don on the page what's up in my head.


                Comment


                • #38
                  Some questions from interested reader:

                  1. What would be alternative name for Od trait? In Polish it means the word like 'from' so one of basis gameline terms would be heard for my players like 'Your From rise a dot...' It's only in Polish problem, so just point what alternative you would use from official lexicon of the game.

                  2. Can Daemons be playable? I'm a huge WoD: Inferno fan and always wanted to run proper angelic game with it - even supported Demon: The Descent hoping it will be much more Inferno like stuff. With your Empyrean being great 'angelic' half of the game to run, I just want to see how would you treat Daemons as PCs, for those that choose 'darker' side. I assume stats work more or less the same, only Onus will be changed for other Integrity equivalent?


                  LGBT+ in CoD games
                  Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                  Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                  Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                  My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    Some questions from interested reader:

                    1. What would be alternative name for Od trait? In Polish it means the word like 'from' so one of basis gameline terms would be heard for my players like 'Your From rise a dot...' It's only in Polish problem, so just point what alternative you would use from official lexicon of the game.
                    Od came from a pseudoscientific theory about a 'vital energy' in the body and the universe. There's a wikipedia article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force . I didn't know that what it meant in Polish.
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    2. Can Daemons be playable? I'm a huge WoD: Inferno fan and always wanted to run proper angelic game with it - even supported Demon: The Descent hoping it will be much more Inferno like stuff. With your Empyrean being great 'angelic' half of the game to run, I just want to see how would you treat Daemons as PCs, for those that choose 'darker' side. I assume stats work more or less the same, only Onus will be changed for other Integrity equivalent?
                    If I'm honest, Daemons really aren't intended to be playable in the same way that Draugr or the Illuminated aren't intended to be playable. They're not 'sexy bad boys' like DC's Lucifer. They're uncaring psychopaths consumed and reveling in their own power, literally incapable of considering anything that can't match them in supernatural might to be anything but a toy to be used and discarded at will. They're not antiheroes, they're unrepentant monsters. Mechanically they're the same as Empyrean save that they lack Onus entirely.

                    If you want an antihero or an identifiable villain there's more than enough room while remaining an Empyrean. All Onus asks you is to recognize that people other than yourself and those stronger than you matter, not necessarily to stick to human notions of morality. You don't have to treat everyone equally well, or be a saint. Being a wrathful god is perfectly acceptable, provided you have a cause. That's the difference between 'dark' Empyrean and Daemons. 'Dark' Empyrean have reasons for their actions, as humans do. Daemons torment and use others for shits and giggles.


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                      I confess, I'm a little confused by what you're asking but I'll give it a go.

                      The things you actually have dots in are Spheres, which are kind of like Arcana, but more specific to certain things. Spheres passively give you Authority, which is an honorary spirit Rank when you're dealing with spirits related to your Spheres. Spheres can then be actively applied to the world as either Designs, which are subtle, medium-to-long-term powers which afflict large areas or numbers of people with... fates, I guess you could say (e.g. "You will be plagued by storms", "You will find love" etc) or as Revelations, which are brief (at most scene-long) and dramatic 'miracles'.

                      Astra are like magical items that are permanently attached to you with independent magical abilities, but which you can only use if you're in one of your divine forms. Unless you've manifested them physically, which means lowering your upper limit on Communion.
                      That's pretty much what I was asking.
                      But here are some more specific questions. Maybe they can be answered now, or maybe they will just help to design later.

                      Spheres
                      Rated 1 to 5?
                      Multiple types available (Ex: Flora - Plant Life, Fauna - Animals, Transportation, Buildings, Etc.)?
                      Are there primary ones related to X or Y splat? (Like In-Clan Disciplines)
                      If they are like Arcana, but more specific; are you creating a set number of them (like 10) or will there be many like Spirit Influences?
                      The number of possible Spirit Influences are huge depending on how general/specific you get.

                      Authority
                      OK. So, the Sphere of Flora would give you Spirit Rank equal to your Sphere Rank in Flora in regards to all Plant Spirits.
                      Will there be any overlap? What if two (or more) Spheres would cover a specific Spirit? What if it barely covers it?
                      Ex: Buildings and Flora in regards to the spirit of a treehouse.

                      Designs
                      Do they have a rating?
                      Are there "pre-designed" Designs or are they created on the spot in game? Like Rote vs. Improvised casting in Mage.
                      Since Designs seem to take time, are they extended rolls over entire time period of the Design? Or do you just "knock over the first domino"?
                      How powerful is a Design? Can it kill? Upset world leadership?

                      Revelations
                      Do they have a rating?
                      Are these the immediate effect/combat use powers like Lightning Strike or Heal?
                      Will these have ratings with 2 or 3 Revelations for each Sphere level (like Mage Spells)? Or will they be specific abilities at levels of a Sphere (like Vampire Disciplines)?

                      Astra
                      Still confused on this one.
                      Do they only appear when you use the power? Unless you make them real and carry them around or give them to someone, possibly getting them stolen by enemies?
                      "Manifesting them" means solidifying a portion of your (possible 10) Communion into one? Is this like Mages creating a Soul Stone for Demesnes?
                      What are the benefits of Manifesting an Astra?

                      Apparently, I'm still full of questions.


                      Did you miss me?
                      I'm back! Long hiatus from the forums. Hope I didn't miss much.
                      Here's where I've been keeping my stuff.
                      http://evosworkshop.wikidot.com/
                      I made "Demon the Return" and "Psychic the Gifted" is in progress.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                        Spheres
                        Rated 1 to 5?
                        Multiple types available (Ex: Flora - Plant Life, Fauna - Animals, Transportation, Buildings, Etc.)?
                        Are there primary ones related to X or Y splat? (Like In-Clan Disciplines)
                        If they are like Arcana, but more specific; are you creating a set number of them (like 10) or will there be many like Spirit Influences?
                        The number of possible Spirit Influences are huge depending on how general/specific you get.
                        They are rated 1-5. There are multiple types available and they will be more like Spirit Influences in that you make your own, although we will be making example Spheres. We know that the potential number of Spheres would be huge, but as a rule of thumb Spheres have to be defined to a single, easily-conceptualised thing, and you have to be able to tightly and intuitively define it - this is an actual part of the Sphere creation process. 'Weather' would be an example Sphere as would 'Plants'. 'Emotions' might be edging on a little too broad, although still possibly acceptable.

                        There aren't specific Spheres associated with the X or Y splat, although you can only take a Sphere which aligns with your Aspect. An Empyrean Aspected to Destruction couldn't take a Sphere of, say, Inspiration.

                        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                        Authority
                        OK. So, the Sphere of Flora would give you Spirit Rank equal to your Sphere Rank in Flora in regards to all Plant Spirits.
                        Will there be any overlap? What if two (or more) Spheres would cover a specific Spirit? What if it barely covers it?
                        Ex: Buildings and Flora in regards to the spirit of a treehouse.
                        Overlap would certainly be a thing. Ultimately, whether or not a Spirit is affected by your Authority is up to the ST, but spirits just outside your Sphere get the sense that you are consequential to them, although not the mechanical aspects of Rank.

                        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                        Designs
                        Do they have a rating?
                        Are there "pre-designed" Designs or are they created on the spot in game? Like Rote vs. Improvised casting in Mage.
                        Since Designs seem to take time, are they extended rolls over entire time period of the Design? Or do you just "knock over the first domino"?
                        How powerful is a Design? Can it kill? Upset world leadership?
                        Designs share ratings with their associated Spheres. If you have a Sphere of Weather 4, for example, you can work a rank-4 Design upon the weather. Designs are extended rolls, but don't have a terminus unless something is actively working against you, although that thing doesn't have to be supernatural.

                        Each Design is unique, but it's not something you can just set off on a whim. It takes a reasonable amount of in-game time to set going, and longer to work. It's like an improvised spell, if you had to cast an improvised spell as a ritual.

                        As for how powerful Designs are, that depends upon what ranking you use with them. A rank-1 Design doesn't have much more power than to make life easier or more irritating for maybe 5 people or so. A rank-5 Design could kill hundreds, maybe thousands (for example, by summoning a hurricane) and could at the very least seriously mess with stuff on a national level, although Designs of that scale are BIG undertakings and will have all the Egregore you disturb up in arms and moving against you, not to mention other Empyrean, other supernaturals and mortal organisations. It bears mention that mortal organisations in general are more resistant to Designs the bigger and the more important they get.

                        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                        Revelations
                        Do they have a rating?
                        Are these the immediate effect/combat use powers like Lightning Strike or Heal?
                        Will these have ratings with 2 or 3 Revelations for each Sphere level (like Mage Spells)? Or will they be specific abilities at levels of a Sphere (like Vampire Disciplines)?
                        Revelations have a rating much like Designs and are exactly the kind of immediate effect/combat use powers you're talking about. Lightning strikes, temporary enthrallment, healing and so on. We're intending to write a number of 'Sphere-agnostic' Revelations (Smite, enthrall, command environment etc) with guidelines for the magnitude which each Sphere rating should allow, along with tables etc for freely designing Revelations.

                        Originally posted by Evo_Shandor View Post
                        Astra
                        Still confused on this one.
                        Do they only appear when you use the power? Unless you make them real and carry them around or give them to someone, possibly getting them stolen by enemies?
                        "Manifesting them" means solidifying a portion of your (possible 10) Communion into one? Is this like Mages creating a Soul Stone for Demesnes?
                        What are the benefits of Manifesting an Astra?

                        Apparently, I'm still full of questions.
                        Naturally, Astra only appear when you're in one of the 'divine' forms. Manifesting them means, as you say, investing a portion of your possible Communion into them, much like creating Soul Stones. Manifest Astra have the bonus of allowing you to access the Astra's inbuilt abilities without having to be in your - very exhausting and fantastically obvious - divine forms. Other than that, we're not precisely sure as of yet.


                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                          Od came from a pseudoscientific theory about a 'vital energy' in the body and the universe. There's a wikipedia article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force . I didn't know that what it meant in Polish.
                          Don't sweat - in multicultural game, sooner or later you will get to the term sounding weird to at least one culture on the globe - just handy is to have alternative. Could Odic work as game therm there?

                          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                          If I'm honest, Daemons really aren't intended to be playable in the same way that Draugr or the Illuminated aren't intended to be playable.
                          Well, I could see playing Draugr for scene or two - it just would be boring in the long term. Illuminated - I do not get what being here you mention.

                          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                          They're not 'sexy bad boys' like DC's Lucifer. They're uncaring psychopaths consumed and reveling in their own power, literally incapable of considering anything that can't match them in supernatural might to be anything but a toy to be used and discarded at will. They're not antiheroes, they're unrepentant monsters.
                          Inferno demons are also not 'sexy bad boys' - they are incarnations of Sins in the world. Much, much, much more Exorcist demons stuff than Supernatural Hell's legions. Remember, in Inferno the Possesed template are assume to play seperated human host and demon inside, revearing in that demon is tormenting his host to generate more Sins. To me the original Inferno'sdemons sounds very much the same as Daemons in your Empyrean, don'y you agree?

                          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                          Mechanically they're the same as Empyrean save that they lack Onus entirely.
                          What could be alternative to Onus for those Inferno-like Daemons? Something more focuse on spreading Sin than

                          Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                          'Dark' Empyrean have reasons for their actions, as humans do. Daemons torment and use others for shits and giggles.
                          Now your Daemons sounds A LOT like Inferno demons...


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                            Well, I could see playing Draugr for scene or two - it just would be boring in the long term. Illuminated - I do not get what being here you mention.
                            the Illuminated are what you would call "mad Genii", if there would be an hierarchy of madness for mad scientists (the Drauger equivalent for a Genius, in sort)

                            Also, I don't think that Infernals are similar to Daemons- contrary, actually. From the way I read the description, Daemons are mad gods- so engulfed in their own divine power that they no longer feel empathy or responsibility toward mankind. Infernals, with all of their failings, love humanity- they understand what makes us ticking, how to motivate us and how to break us. In a way, they are us- everything we hate about ourselves, incarnated into a voice which whisper in our ears, a black mirror where the reflection not only stares back, but also mocks everything we do and say. Infernals are evil because we are evil- and there is no hell without people to define their sins.

                            Daemons, on the other hand, seems to be mad deities- beings which are so far away from humanity, that everyone looks to them like pawns to play with, meant to be used to increase their influence and celebrate their divine existence. They don't care about mankind- they have nothing in common with them. They are fallen gods, more like how Scion's 2E Titans are presented- gods who are so involved in their Previews that they become bound by it. They are forces of nature, with no compassion of logic that a human being can understand.

                            At least, that's my reading of the text- I may be wrong, as I'm not a writer of this project


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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                              Don't sweat - in multicultural game, sooner or later you will get to the term sounding weird to at least one culture on the globe - just handy is to have alternative. Could Odic work as game therm there?
                              'Odic' is an adjective, though, not a noun. It just means 'Of or relating to Odin'. It could certainly be used as a word to refer to things of or relating to Od, if that's what you mean.
                              Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                              the Illuminated are what you would call "mad Genii", if there would be an hierarchy of madness for mad scientists (the Drauger equivalent for a Genius, in sort)

                              Also, I don't think that Infernals are similar to Daemons- contrary, actually. From the way I read the description, Daemons are mad gods- so engulfed in their own divine power that they no longer feel empathy or responsibility toward mankind. Infernals, with all of their failings, love humanity- they understand what makes us ticking, how to motivate us and how to break us. In a way, they are us- everything we hate about ourselves, incarnated into a voice which whisper in our ears, a black mirror where the reflection not only stares back, but also mocks everything we do and say. Infernals are evil because we are evil- and there is no hell without people to define their sins.

                              Daemons, on the other hand, seems to be mad deities- beings which are so far away from humanity, that everyone looks to them like pawns to play with, meant to be used to increase their influence and celebrate their divine existence. They don't care about mankind- they have nothing in common with them. They are fallen gods, more like how Scion's 2E Titans are presented- gods who are so involved in their Previews that they become bound by it. They are forces of nature, with no compassion of logic that a human being can understand.

                              At least, that's my reading of the text- I may be wrong, as I'm not a writer of this project
                              That's pretty much exactly what we were going for. Infernals are invested in humanity and our sins, while Daemons don't care about us any more than they care about a chair or a cool new phone. At best, humans are amusing or irritating to them. That's about as intense as their emotions get towards 'lesser' beings, unless they actually manage to thwart the Daemon somehow. Then the gloves come off. Usually the humans are smited long before then, though. Irritating a god is a capital offense, after all, at least in their eyes.

                              We actually considered 'Primordials' or 'Titans' as names for the Daemons, but scrapped that on the grounds that it implied a... fundamentality which Daemons don't have, any more so than Empyrean, at least. A better name would be welcome, although we're reasonably happy with 'Daemon'.
                              Last edited by ajf115; 09-27-2017, 05:04 PM.


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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                                2. Can Daemons be playable? I'm a huge WoD: Inferno fan and always wanted to run proper angelic game with it - even supported Demon: The Descent hoping it will be much more Inferno like stuff. With your Empyrean being great 'angelic' half of the game to run, I just want to see how would you treat Daemons as PCs, for those that choose 'darker' side. I assume stats work more or less the same, only Onus will be changed for other Integrity equivalent?
                                Going with what ajf115 and LostLight have been saying, Daemons tend to be non-pcs. Daemons are so far removed from human beings that humans are mostly a part of the scenery, they aren't even a particular focus for the Mad Gods. Daemons are just as likely to burn down an entire rainforest as they are to steal candy from a toddler; in fact, this is what makes them so dangerous--they are thoroughly unpredictable in how they will act in a given situation outside of something posing them a threat. A Mad God could save a collapsing orphanage one day because it wasn't "done playing with it" yet, just to lose interest and wipe out the orphanage along with the surrounding city with a plague the next. I'm sure you could play a Daemon, in point of fact you could probably have a lot of twisted fun doing it, you'd just have to keep in mind that you're playing a psychopath with no agenda outside preserving their own existence and pursuing momentary distractions, largely at the dear cost of everything around them.

                                But, there are also other options to consider. Take the Empyrean within the Creed of the Grigorian Choir for example--not all of the Reborn in the Creed consider themselves angels (or angel-wannabes) and spirits of light. Some of the Creed picture themselves as being Djinn, while others may think of themselves as something of an Elfin Lord from catholic Ireland, while others are grim reapers and others think of themselves as outright Devils weeding out the weak of spirit. So that's also something to keep in mind as well.

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