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Implementing the Old World of Darkness Universe to the new CoD System/Universe

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  • Implementing the Old World of Darkness Universe to the new CoD System/Universe

    First of all, sorry for my poor and misleading title (that it seems, can't be edited), this is more of a personal rant than a question, my intention here is to hear out opinions about what I'm thinking as well as suggestions regarding this thoughts. Here it goes;

    When I first got my nWoD & VtR rulebooks I said; Bingo! They got the system right eventually... getting closer to perfection even!, well, at least before I opened the first pages of VtR. Then my eyes started bleeding, my brain started paining... oh well, that was damn painful. As an old Vampire; The Masquerade Player/DM that also could find many broken things all over the system and universe itself, I wanted to like the whole new line for real, but I just can't make it happen.

    I think CoD is much more coherent and it really makes the whole "scary monsters" world to fit together, but...

    ...that, just if I get to forget for a second that the nWoD is to me set in a rather "terrible-teenager-oriented", "softcore horror" TV serial (Buffy and Co.) type of Universe, instead of that crude, mature, vile and in-your-face horror version of a "late 80's - early 90's" "Gothic-Punk" / "Cyber-Punk" thrillers and horror movies, gritty, hopeless, nihilistic, apocalyptic feeling.

    So, yeah, I have a big issue with the whole CoD universe (although not at all with the mechanics), I do need to have get that "Masquerade/Apocalypse" feeling back, I need those awesome-creepy and evil 13* (original) Vampire Clans, nature-guardian sort of Werewolves and the damn Wyrm!

    I gotta say The GodMachine Chronicles have given me also a chance to bring what's possibly my most favorite RPG Universe (KULT) closer than ever to the WoD, specially when I found fanmade stuff like "The Jail of Night ", I also got myself working in rules and worlds conversions right away when I first read the old nWoD core book and have been trying to build a generic system based on the Storytelling one since even before I took place the birth of nWoD, to the point that I'd like to exclusively run every single game/universe I'd ever like to role-play (from Kult to Shadowrun to Warhammer 40.000 to Fallout to Mad Max to Blade Runner!) with such a mechanics.

    Yeah, no doubt I embrace the new CoD as what I've been always looking for and I even still trying to figure a way to use it as mentioned before even with a non Horror/Suspense ideas (either way, I've never liked most D&D and alike game's atmospheres, way too shinny and fancy to me), but I'd love to play VtM and WtA and maybe blend it with some of the CoD core settings (DtD specially), but I don't like the World of Darkness full of Mummies, Frankensteins and other classic monsters, I personally just enjoy Crude-non-romantic Vampires, savage Werewolves and other creepy creatures that would have to make their way from different games (like Kult or Call of Cthulu) and that's the WoD/CoD I'd like to achieve to run/play.
    Last edited by Eien Hawkmoon; 01-09-2018, 01:26 PM.

  • #2
    It's way easier to read a post this long with line breaks placed to separate thoughts than as a single stream of consciousness.

    What exactly are you asking for? "To make a system that you can easily adapt to any sort of horror story" sounds like you're proposing a rewritten version of the entire system, which is a big thing to ask, especially without narrowing down what you want to change beyond a sense of the intended feel. I don't think anything about the CofD requires you to run it in more of a Supernatural tone than a Blade or Underworld-ish tone, a lot of that just comes down to presentation and choice of emphasis.

    If you disagree, though, what are you looking for? Rules hacks (to what rules)? Rules for the clans and sects of Masquerade and a context within the Cainite mythology for elements of Requiem? (The Vampire Translation Guide provides for this pretty well, though I am less confident in its Discipline conversion mechanics; there are also a bunch of posts in the Requiem subforum with Disciplines and clans from Masquerade reimagined for the Requiem setting.)

    It's much easier to answer a call for help with specific issues than big general issues.

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    • #3
      There are translation guides available for Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and it looks like Demon. They only mechanically translate to first edition but most of what you seem to want is setting changes. Except Demon, which would translate to second edition's rulesets.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
        It's way easier to read a post this long with line breaks placed to separate thoughts than as a single stream of consciousness.

        What exactly are you asking for? "To make a system that you can easily adapt to any sort of horror story" sounds like you're proposing a rewritten version of the entire system, which is a big thing to ask, especially without narrowing down what you want to change beyond a sense of the intended feel. I don't think anything about the CofD requires you to run it in more of a Supernatural tone than a Blade or Underworld-ish tone, a lot of that just comes down to presentation and choice of emphasis.

        If you disagree, though, what are you looking for? Rules hacks (to what rules)? Rules for the clans and sects of Masquerade and a context within the Cainite mythology for elements of Requiem? (The Vampire Translation Guide provides for this pretty well, though I am less confident in its Discipline conversion mechanics; there are also a bunch of posts in the Requiem subforum with Disciplines and clans from Masquerade reimagined for the Requiem setting.)

        It's much easier to answer a call for help with specific issues than big general issues.
        Edited, thanks. I was ignorant about the Vampire Translation Guide.
        Last edited by Eien Hawkmoon; 01-14-2018, 10:49 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nofather View Post
          There are translation guides available for Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and it looks like Demon. They only mechanically translate to first edition but most of what you seem to want is setting changes. Except Demon, which would translate to second edition's rulesets.
          Thanks for the links, also, what do you mean with only translate to 1st Ed.? you mean nWoD? Or the 1st Ed of VtM, WtA, etc?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post
            Thanks for the links, also, what do you mean with only translate to 1st Ed.? you mean nWoD? Or the 1st Ed of VtM, WtA, etc?
            First edition of nWoD. Before God-Machine and Chronicles of Darkness.

            Demon started using second edition rules so it doesn't have a first edition nWoD ruleset.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post

              Thanks for the links, also, what do you mean with only translate to 1st Ed.? you mean nWoD? Or the 1st Ed of VtM, WtA, etc?
              Because of various complicated ownership issues, the Intellectual Property that was originally released under the name “New World of Darkness” has had its name changed to “Chronicles of Darkness.” The God Machine Chronicle was the first book released using the Revised Storytelling System, though that was before the name change from (New) World of Darkness to Chronicles of Darkness, and Crowd Control Productions, who were the IP holders at the time, didn’t want to call it a second edition. Shortly after the release of Blood and Smoke: the Strix Chronicle, Onyx Path got the ok to officially call the books released using the Revised Storytelling System (new) World of Darkness Second Edition. Then the new White Wolf bought the IP from Crowd Control and changed the name to Chronicles of Darkness. So, the game you refer to as NWoD is Chronicles of Darkness 1st Edition, and the game you refer to as Chronicles of Darkness is Chronicles of Darkness 2nd Edition.

              Also, could you tone down the vitriol towards the setting a bit? It’s fine to not like it, but most of the folks here do, and it’s against rule 3 (respect other people’s preferences) to trash talk it. In particular, the comment about the books “making your eyes bleed” and being set in a "terrible-teenager-oriented, softcore horror TV serial (Buffy and Co.) type of Universe” is really beyond the bounds of the rules, and to call the Classic World of Darkness setting mature by comparison is just silly.


              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

              My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                to call the Classic World of Darkness setting mature by comparison is just silly.
                Quoted. For. Truth.


                But, again, some details regarding your issues would help with figuring out solutions.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • #9
                  RE: Classic WoD vs Chronicles of Darkness

                  Speaking as an old-school guy (I started with White Wolf with VtM 1rst edition and have been with the gamelines almost without pause ever since), I personally love the Chronicles style of play, but I sympathize with other old school guys who feel that the NWoD/CofD are comparatively lighter in tone and mood. And I thing more than anything, its that Classic World of Darkness mood that some people miss(not universally, if anything my games got darker when I switched over).

                  Even without the hardwork of converting mechanics, there were a few key mood elements I think can be played up/added.

                  The End is Nigh: Most of the cWod games had an apocalypse lingering in the background, be it the rise of the Antedeluvians, the final victory of the Wyrm, or any of the other setting wide meta-threats. This sense of oncoming doom was great for giving the players an urgency to the actions and motives. No sense planning for a tomorrow that won't arrive unless you act right-the-hell-now!

                  Die for your Flag:Faction conflict was so central to cWoD, its probably the element thats been borrowed the most in popular fiction and other gamelines. Where CofD downplays faction, in cWodit was crucial, and your Clan/Tribe/Tradition etc determined a large amount of how your character was going to be played.

                  War Never Ends: The cWod was simmering with open conflicts,which was fun because it gave an most never ending stream of opportunities to use your cosmic powers to defeat your enemies (and look good while doing it!)There was a over-the-top vibe that I think is not as tonally at home in the CofD as it was in the NWoD.

                  More than anything, I think simply playing up these elements can give a CofD game more of that old-school feel.


                  Curios, Relics, and Tomes - A collection of Relics (Cursed and Otherwise)
                  The Horror Lab - A collection of Beasts, Monsters and less definable things.
                  Strange Places - A collection of Dark, Mysterious, and Wondrous Locations
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                  • #10
                    Reighnhell puts what I had in mind when I said Chronicles could be run with this atmosphere much better. Each of the Translation Guides also has a part up front that discusses the different genre conceits and narrative differences of the World and the Chronicles of Darkness, which I found to be well written and concise.

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                    • #11
                      On top of the Translation Guides (not sure if we're going to see more of them at this rate), there's also books like War Against the Pure, and WOD: Mirrors. They're 1e books too, but there's plenty in them that can be used to push a CofD based game more towards a cWoD feel. A WAtP Silver Crusade game is pretty close to a old school WtA style game.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                        A WAtP Silver Crusade game is pretty close to a old school WtA style game.
                        Sorry for my ignorance, what WAtP stands for?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
                          Each of the Translation Guides also has a part up front that discusses the different genre conceits and narrative differences of the World and the Chronicles of Darkness, which I found to be well written and concise.
                          I guess that's the way to go then. Thanks gosh I don't have a long-running campaign to convert to CoD (2nd Ed), still I see a bit of work upcoming for my plans, but that's definitely better than having to figure the whole translation out by my self.

                          Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
                          Reighnhell puts what I had in mind when I said Chronicles could be run with this atmosphere much better
                          Does this means you think that CoD setting itself could accommodate the oWoD effortlessly or that Chronicles would actually be better off with the oWoD setting?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post

                            Sorry for my ignorance, what WAtP stands for?

                            War Against the Pure.

                            Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post
                            Does this means you think that CoD setting itself could accommodate the oWoD effortlessly or that Chronicles would actually be better off with the oWoD setting?
                            The former, I'm guessing. Narrative elements (such as setting themes and history) are easy to import. If there are parts of whichever Chronicles setting you don't like or want to change - change them. But considering CofD runs on a fair amount of ambiguity and mystery in its backstory (the better to give individual STs options), you can insert and blend without disrupting much.

                            If you run into any blocks, just ask specific questions like: How would implementing Wraith affect things? For one thing, it would adjust how Ghosts and the Underworld are viewed.


                            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                              Narrative elements (such as setting themes and history) are easy to import. If there are parts of whichever Chronicles setting you don't like or want to change - change them
                              Sounds just like the way any PnP RPG is been played since forever, isn't it? Hehe

                              Not a problem with that, for sure, I guess it just gets overwhelming the amount of information that White Wolf and Co. have given us over the time, specially if you (like I) haven't had the time or situation to go through it, still. Same now with the whole nWoD which I miss almost entirely with the exception of the 1st ed core, the VtR core and pretty much jumped from there to the God-machine Chronicle, yep, a same, but that's how much I disliked VtR setting when it came out, anyways, I did like nWoD mechanics and new setting a lot though.

                              Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                              How would implementing Wraith affect things? For one thing, it would adjust how Ghosts and the Underworld are viewed.
                              Oh, Wraith! I miss Wraith. Anyways, I will need to ask a loooot of questions any time soon, yeah. Thanks.


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