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Implementing the Old World of Darkness Universe to the new CoD System/Universe

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Because of various complicated ownership issues
    Oh well, damn business, how hard are they to understand when it's all about people's passions.


    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Also, could you tone down the vitriol towards the setting a bit? It’s fine to not like it, but most of the folks here do, and it’s against rule 3 (respect other people’s preferences) to trash talk it. In particular, the comment about the books “making your eyes bleed” and being set in a "terrible-teenager-oriented, softcore horror TV serial (Buffy and Co.) type of Universe” is really beyond the bounds of the rules, and to call the Classic World of Darkness setting mature by comparison is just silly.
    First of all, I'm sorry and I apologize if you or others felt offended by those allegations, it is my own very personal opinion of how I felt it at the time, I have zero intent to insult either fans of it or even less the devs (big respect for you all, I'm an amateur dev myself, big ups!).

    The whole "...eyes bleed" was a unfortunate somewhat poetical-satyric way of say it. About how the horror level went down to me from "crude" to "terrible-teenager-oriented" had maybe gone a bit too far, yep, the "terrible" adjective was 100% aimed to all those TV Serials and not to the WoD/CoD itself, but it came out that way and I felt it was funny.

    I'll edit it if asked to, since I have to say that the more I read through the Translation Guides, the more I feel like adventuring myself to try the new CoD as it is while definitely changing all the things (and I guess in most cases, Names and Terms more than concepts that may still work after all), but I'll do just because I always thought that the oWoD needed a lot more of general coherence, a true/native cross-play system like it is CoD nowadays and because a lot of the mechanics needed a clear fix as well, but, I wish the original setting was still there (in a bigger way) in the new books, because I wish I could just play in the old, unstable, nihilistic, full of rush and terror universe of World of Darkness. Anyways, I'll work it out, at least CoD gives me an open chance to make my craziest crossover ideas happen (like WoD + Kult + Cthulu + Silent Hill all together) hehe.
    Last edited by Eien Hawkmoon; 01-10-2018, 02:21 PM.

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    • #17
      Considering your criticisms towards VtR I think you should take a look at second edition as soon as possible. The setting itself hasn't changed dramatically, but it's certainly matured (as in becoming more refined and compelling), and the power level took a pretty huge step up.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tessie View Post
        Considering your criticisms towards VtR I think you should take a look at second edition as soon as possible. The setting itself hasn't changed dramatically, but it's certainly matured (as in becoming more refined and compelling), and the power level took a pretty huge step up.
        I am, just now (for real) and very excited about it indeed. I most possibly wasn't ready for the change when it came, I just needed a world of darkness well put together and an improved mechanics (although still I thought they were the best at the time and they just seem to really get better and smarter), I was extremelly excited when I heard about the God Machine chronicle for the first time, so much that it brought my attention back to the nWoD and here I am now

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post
          Does this means you think that CoD setting itself could accommodate the oWoD effortlessly or that Chronicles would actually be better off with the oWoD setting?
          Not necessarily accomodate the oWoD in its entirety, but yes, I do believe the CofD setting can accomodate play in an "unstable, nihilistic, full of rush and terror" mode and genre just fine. That's less a matter of specifically having Tzimisce and Noddists around, and more a matter of how you craft and present your game world to your players, the flavor of having Gothic skyscrapers, crime-riddled alleys, and powerful elder vampires with long-lasting grudges.

          I'll second the recommendation to check out the VTR 2e corebook. As a CofD fan, I myself found the VTR 1e corebook to be very dry and bloodless, so to speak, and the 2e corebook definitely doesn't repeat that problem. It's also friendlier to having those powerful elder vampires around, between a much lighter presentation of torpor and the Fog of Eternity (I don't think the latter name even comes up), and some potent high-level Devotions, like the terrifying Juggernaut's Gait, and Riot, which triggers a neighborhood-wide bloodbath.

          I do think a lot of the oWoD can be accommodated by the CofD setting too, by the way. There's some work to rewriting, say, the Tzimisce as a Requiem bloodline or the Tremere as a secret society covenant structured by the Vinculum, but like I mentioned, a lot of folks in the VTR subforum here have already done that work for you.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post

            I'll second the recommendation to check out the VTR 2e corebook. As a CofD fan, I myself found the VTR 1e corebook to be very dry and bloodless, so to speak, and the 2e corebook definitely doesn't repeat that problem.
            S***, I've been away for too long that I completely missed that it was indeed a VtR 2nd Ed. Feeling kinda stupid right now. I think I really need a Time-lapse-like resume of how much have changed since then. I've completely missed the whole nWoD 1st ed. after the two first core books were released (nWoD/VtR).

            Ok, let's see, I've heard already that DtD was the first one coming with the CoD setting implemented (being maybe even in-part guilty for it, am I wrong? *talking bout the God-machine thing), then there's a VtR 2nd ed. from 2013-2014 (I'm a very long time ignorant), then... what else? What about the translation guides? Do they refer to the 1st or 2nd editions?

            BTW, I really like how it sounds that of Tremere as a SS Covenant (what's Vinculum though?), but still can't totally see Malkavians, Tzimisces or Lasombra as just bloodlines, I could even see Samedi or Baali as legit clans when they first were mentioned and the bloodline concept came out.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post

              S***, I've been away for too long that I completely missed that it was indeed a VtR 2nd Ed. Feeling kinda stupid right now. I think I really need a Time-lapse-like resume of how much have changed since then. I've completely missed the whole nWoD 1st ed. after the two first core books were released (nWoD/VtR).

              Ok, let's see, I've heard already that DtD was the first one coming with the CoD setting implemented (being maybe even in-part guilty for it, am I wrong? *talking bout the God-machine thing), then there's a VtR 2nd ed. from 2013-2014 (I'm a very long time ignorant), then... what else? What about the translation guides? Do they refer to the 1st or 2nd editions?.

              Before DtD there was a book called The God-Machine Chronicles, this was an update to the 1st ed rules that is what became 2nd ed. Demon came out and included the rules chunk from the God-Machine Chronicles book. Then a book called Vampire: The Requiem: Blood & Smoke was coming out using those same rules updates but right as it did the permission to just call it second edition was given (as Charlaquin explained) so it was renamed VtR Second Edition.

              The Translations Guides (aside from the Demon one) are all based on first edition.

              So far there are second editions of:

              * Vampire
              * Mage
              * Werewolf
              * Promethean

              There are two lines (Demon and Beast) that only exist with the second edition rules, and they have announced/working on the remaining games (Changeling (the kickstarter for this just finished), Geist, Hunter, and Mummy). And there is another new game coming that wil use the second edition rules called Deviant.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post


                Before DtD there was a book called The God-Machine Chronicles, this was an update to the 1st ed rules that is what became 2nd ed. Demon came out and included the rules chunk from the God-Machine Chronicles book. Then a book called Vampire: The Requiem: Blood & Smoke was coming out using those same rules updates but right as it did the permission to just call it second edition was given (as Charlaquin explained) so it was renamed VtR Second Edition.
                Man, that time has come when the new stuff is cooked up on the fly and released as PDF and you better keep up daily with all this stuff (including Forum stuff) or you just go nuts trying to figure all those names out and what's with them, I guess we kinda did the same before with the magazines and all, but it was ignored by many, they'd just play the games by the core book! there was even those whom completely ignored the official supplements at all... I guess nothing has changed after all, just got digitalized.
                Last edited by Eien Hawkmoon; 01-10-2018, 04:45 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post

                  S***, I've been away for too long that I completely missed that it was indeed a VtR 2nd Ed. Feeling kinda stupid right now. I think I really need a Time-lapse-like resume of how much have changed since then. I've completely missed the whole nWoD 1st ed. after the two first core books were released (nWoD/VtR).

                  Ok, let's see, I've heard already that DtD was the first one coming with the CoD setting implemented (being maybe even in-part guilty for it, am I wrong? *talking bout the God-machine thing), then there's a VtR 2nd ed. from 2013-2014 (I'm a very long time ignorant), then... what else? What about the translation guides? Do they refer to the 1st or 2nd editions?
                  The second edition ruleset of the now Chronicles of Darkness was first rolled out for mortals in The God-Machine Chronicle which you have, as a patch appendix that cross-references the 1e rulebook. The second core second edition book was the Demon: The Descent corebook; the third was Vampire: The Requiem Second Edition. (Due to legal dealings with license ownership, this book was originally released as Blood & Smoke: The Strix Chronicle, then rebranded after permission was obtained to officially call the new rules a "second edition" of the nWoD.)

                  Following second edition corebooks that have already come out include Werewolf: The Forsaken 2e, Mage: The Awakening 2e, Promethean: The Created 2e, Beast: The Primordial, and the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook (which is a standalone mortals corebook which reprints most of the GMC content and adds some in-depth optional systems and add-ons, including a subsystem for creating miscellaneous monsters called Horrors). A Kickstarter recently ended to produce deluxe prints of Changeling: The Lost 2e, so backers of that project have access to a full preview of that game's second edition rules, but the proper book is not out for sale yet.

                  All Demon and Beast books (currently five Demon supplements and two Beast supplements, six and three if you count the ready-made player character packs) are written for the 2e ruleset. Released 2e supplements for other games currently include Secrets of the Covenants, A Thousand Years of Night, and Half-Damned (for Vampire: The Requiem), The Pack (for Werewolf: The Forsaken), and Hurt Locker (for the general blue-book line). Released books which, due to the timing of their release, straddle the line between 1e and 2e rules include Mortal Remains and Tooth & Nail (for Hunter: the Vigil, with Mortal Remains including a simple hot-patch appendix for running 1e Vigil using the 2e ruleset), Dark Eras, and the Dark Eras Companion (multi-gameline books, with each chapter representing a historical era/setting focused on one or two gamelines; for example, Mage and Werewolf in the Neolithic period, or Vampire and Changeling in Elizabethan England).

                  All of the above books for sale can be bought as PDFs or print-on-demand hardcopies at DrivethruRPG.

                  Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post
                  BTW, I really like how it sounds that of Tremere as a SS Covenant (what's Vinculum though?), but still can't totally see Malkavians, Tzimisces or Lasombra as just bloodlines, I could even see Samedi or Baali as legit clans when they first were mentioned and the bloodline concept came out.
                  "Vinculum" is just used in Requiem as another word for the blood bond.

                  It's not that much harder to run Tzimisce or Lasombra as full clans instead of bloodlines, just personal tastes. Worth noting, the five Requiem clanbooks contain excellent in-world flavor storytelling and scuttlebutt which is much closer to the passionate bloody second edition's tone than the bloodless first edition core's (four of the five clanbooks were developed under Rose Bailey, who went on to develop and design second edition Requiem), and the Ventrue clanbook introduces the notion of Malkavia, which I find to be a much worthier reimagining of Clan Malkavian than the Malkovian bloodline presented in the 1e corebook. Malkavia is a bloodborne contagion which is similar in effects to a bloodline, but it is not a bloodline, nor is it restricted to Clan Ventrue; imagine the Madness Network as a disease. Even if you don't care for that idea either, it contains rules for a Dementation Discipline for Requiem which I would recommend over the Vampire Translation Guide's translation of Dementation.
                  Last edited by Stupid Loserman; 01-10-2018, 07:09 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Did you like Mage: the Ascension too? Because I made something for that.



                    “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                    "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pale_Crusader View Post
                      Did you like Mage: the Ascension too? Because I made something for that.
                      I have never been a big fan of Mage in general, in The Awakening mages were way too overpowered to the point they look more like super-heroes rather than wizards, as a single game it's fine (if that's the kind of stuff you like), but I was always about the WofD crossover and there they were kinda in a different division to me, I can't really talk much about The Ascension though, but I always though that if I could find the way to have a balanced and more "Sorcerer-ish" kind of Mage (E.g. magic as seen in Kult) I would be happy to incorporate them.
                      Last edited by Eien Hawkmoon; 01-11-2018, 02:21 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post

                        I have never been a big fan of Mage in general, in The Awakening mages were way too overpowered to the point they look more like super-heroes rather than wizards, as a single game it's fine (if that's the kind of stuff you like), but I was always about the WofD crossover and there they were kinda in a different division to me, I can't really talk much about The Ascension though, but I always though that if I could find the way to have a balanced and more "Sorcerer-ish" kind of Mage (E.g. magic as seen in Kult) I would be happy to incorporate them.

                        You might want to check out the Witchfinders Hunter 1e book then. The witches in that aren't nearly as powerful as the awakened mages, so that might be something more up your alley. Hunter first edition actually has quite a bit of neat stuff, as does some of its 2e updates.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post


                          You might want to check out the Witchfinders Hunter 1e book then. The witches in that aren't nearly as powerful as the awakened mages, so that might be something more up your alley. Hunter first edition actually has quite a bit of neat stuff, as does some of its 2e updates.
                          Witches! Bingo! That's my kinda stuff yep, thanks, I'll definitely check that out, thanks!.

                          I've mentioned Kult, but forgot a huge influence for me regarding "magic"; even if I loved reading The Dragonlance Trilogies when teenager, and loved Raistlin Majere, my biggest teenage Icon was by far Elric of Melnibone (Stormbringer), I guess I always tended towards that kind of "magic" therefor.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Eien Hawkmoon View Post
                            Witches! Bingo! That's my kinda stuff yep, thanks, I'll definitely check that out, thanks!.
                            Don't be misled by the title. The magic in Witches works more or less like the Thaumaturgy paths from Masquerade. Ever Professional is right that they're less powerful than the Awakened but not in the way you want. (At least, I suspect so).

                            If you want Kult style magic, then take Awakening 2e magic and remove instant casting. You get a very powerful magic system that has hours of casting time. Additionally, it includes rules for using special ritual spaces as well so if you want the temples (I think that was the name) from Kult, just make those mandatory.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Michael View Post

                              Don't be misled by the title. The magic in Witches works more or less like the Thaumaturgy paths from Masquerade. Ever Professional is right that they're less powerful than the Awakened but not in the way you want. (At least, I suspect so).

                              If you want Kult style magic, then take Awakening 2e magic and remove instant casting. You get a very powerful magic system that has hours of casting time. Additionally, it includes rules for using special ritual spaces as well so if you want the temples (I think that was the name) from Kult, just make those mandatory.

                              Yeah, Witches are fun. Even though the rules are a bit clunky/odd, they definitely allow for lower powered, but still fearsome magic-use.

                              You don't have to completely eliminate Instant casting for Mage, either. Just make it always risk Paradox. Check out that sub-Forum for the various hacks.


                              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Michael View Post

                                If you want Kult style magic, then take Awakening 2e magic and remove instant casting. You get a very powerful magic system that has hours of casting time. Additionally, it includes rules for using special ritual spaces as well so if you want the temples (I think that was the name) from Kult, just make those mandatory.
                                That sounds pretty good, I guess I also need to chose better which paths are likely to belong to real-life-ish witchcraft and which are more like "supernatural powers" kind. Thanks for the idea

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