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Awakening Kindred, Devoured Werewolves, and other Hybrids

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Wormwood View Post
    Dont know where to Find it, but Wild Hunt As A Changeling/Werewolf crossover template sounds soooo obvious, now.
    I don't get the changeling part of it, just based on the name.

    Edit: wilde Jagd is indeed wild hunt, the e is not old, though, but contemporary german
    Thanks for the correction.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Gallus View Post
      A quick pass at trying to make a Mage/Promethean(Alchemist) hybrid.

      (please be gentle)
      Added some rough ideas for Merits.

      I don't really know what I'm doing


      SWTOR Referal: http://www.swtor.com/r/JQ2nqy

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nofather View Post

        I don't get the changeling part of it, just based on the name.



        Thanks for the correction.
        You are welcome.


        The wild hunt in fiction (e.g. witcher, Dresden Files) is commonly A mythological group of otherworldly hunters, Usually Fae Of Some Kind, Who Are Considered A Bad Omen (draught, war, death), Bringers Of Death, and Also Kidnappers that sweep up people to participate in the hunt. It is based on a european myth, where the wild hunt is exactly the above, pretty much.


        Edit: should mention they Hunt in the sky.
        Now, wouldn't that be something for LostUratha?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Wormwood View Post

          You are welcome.


          The wild hunt in fiction (e.g. witcher, Dresden Files) is commonly A mythological group of otherworldly hunters, Usually Fae Of Some Kind, Who Are Considered A Bad Omen (draught, war, death), Bringers Of Death, and Also Kidnappers that sweep up people to participate in the hunt. It is based on a european myth, where the wild hunt is exactly the above, pretty much.


          Edit: should mention they Hunt in the sky.
          Now, wouldn't that be something for LostUratha?
          Seems like Uratha, except for the sky hunting thing. Changelings don't seem like they would do a hunt or be involved with it at all. Maybe elements of Changeling, like the True Fae. And that's only because you describe it as 'Usually Fae of some kind.' But the idea of a bunch of hunters who come with otherworldly elements taking or killing people seems more like werewolf and way unlike changeling.
          Last edited by nofather; 03-30-2018, 08:24 AM.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by nofather View Post

            Seems like Uratha, except for the sky hunting thing. Changelings don't seem like they would do a hunt or be involved with it at all. Maybe elements of Changeling, like the True Fae. And that's only because you describe it as 'Usually Fae of some kind.' But the idea of a bunch of hunters who come with otherworldly elements taking or killing people seems more like werewolf and way unlike changeling.
            I think I should have went into more detail. the kidnapping Element is what makes it so fae/changeling for me - people sleep in their bed or take a walk, are Suddenly swiped away, Part Of A Hunting party. When they return, a lot of time has passed, or maybe none at all.
            There is also the 'omen' Character: it is less often that they bring death, but more that it follows in their wake (well, mythologically, at least. Contemporary fantasy has a slightly different approach). So seeing the hunt is like hearing your beansidhe. It means a storm, or a war, or horrible times are coming.
            There is also a character of oaths- not giving enough offerings to odin's horses (who is occassionally considered to lead the hunt) can result in the hunt punishing you by causing a bad harvest, but the year is supposed to be exceptionally good if the hunt sings. Certain ceremonies were/are celebrated, in a similar vein to halloween - to placate the hunt.
            It is more fae than changeling, but imo mixing changeling's oaths-and-fairytale themes with The Wolf Must Hunt lends itself well, here.
            Plus the hunt often chases a fairytale character, e.g. Frau Holle.

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            • #66
              Well, we do have an Firstborn called "Sky Hunter". Perhaps they are the ones to lead the Lost!Uratha Wild Hunt?


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              • #67
                Originally posted by Wormwood View Post
                I think I should have went into more detail. the kidnapping Element is what makes it so fae/changeling for me - people sleep in their bed or take a walk, are Suddenly swiped away, Part Of A Hunting party. When they return, a lot of time has passed, or maybe none at all.
                There is also the 'omen' Character: it is less often that they bring death, but more that it follows in their wake (well, mythologically, at least. Contemporary fantasy has a slightly different approach). So seeing the hunt is like hearing your beansidhe. It means a storm, or a war, or horrible times are coming.
                There is also a character of oaths- not giving enough offerings to odin's horses (who is occassionally considered to lead the hunt) can result in the hunt punishing you by causing a bad harvest, but the year is supposed to be exceptionally good if the hunt sings. Certain ceremonies were/are celebrated, in a similar vein to halloween - to placate the hunt.
                It is more fae than changeling, but imo mixing changeling's oaths-and-fairytale themes with The Wolf Must Hunt lends itself well, here.
                Plus the hunt often chases a fairytale character, e.g. Frau Holle.
                These things don't seem to be related to changeling at all, though, it seems like something a changeling would never want to be part of. Taking people, hunting, using offerings, these are straight werewolf things. Even omens when you bring spirits with you. The memory loss is easily attributed to any form of Breaking Point, though. Chasing a fairytale character just makes it sound like it's a particular Siskur-Dah.

                There's a rite, Great Hunt, that this seems to be representative of. 'At the rite’s culmination, all human and Wolf-Blooded members of the pack immediately shift to Urhan form, gaining the full range of bonuses that the form offers, the senses of a werewolf and regeneration as if they had Primal Urge 1. They also gain the Ban Condition until the sun rises They are compelled to hunt the pack’s prey. Taking part in the Great Hunt is an Integrity breaking point for humans, but not Wolf-Blooded.' But it could just as easily be a Fire-Touched or Predator King, as their sacred hunts let them sort of recruit spirits and warp the world around them.

                You don't even have to be there. Just members of the pack changed into wolves at night, including the humans who aren't even aware they're part of a pack.

                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                Well, we do have an Firstborn called "Sky Hunter". Perhaps they are the ones to lead the Lost!Uratha Wild Hunt?
                I think Satchel and someone else suggested Briarwolf for a Lost/Uratha Firstborn.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post

                  These things don't seem to be related to changeling at all, though, it seems like something a changeling would never want to be part of. Taking people, hunting, using offerings, these are straight werewolf things. Even omens when you bring spirits with you. The memory loss is easily attributed to any form of Breaking Point, though. Chasing a fairytale character just makes it sound like it's a particular Siskur-Dah.

                  There's a rite, Great Hunt, that this seems to be representative of. 'At the rite’s culmination, all human and Wolf-Blooded members of the pack immediately shift to Urhan form, gaining the full range of bonuses that the form offers, the senses of a werewolf and regeneration as if they had Primal Urge 1. They also gain the Ban Condition until the sun rises They are compelled to hunt the pack’s prey. Taking part in the Great Hunt is an Integrity breaking point for humans, but not Wolf-Blooded.' But it could just as easily be a Fire-Touched or Predator King, as their sacred hunts let them sort of recruit spirits and warp the world around them.

                  You don't even have to be there. Just members of the pack changed into wolves at night, including the humans who aren't even aware they're part of a pack.



                  I think Satchel and someone else suggested Briarwolf for a Lost/Uratha Firstborn.
                  It is indeed nothing a changeling might want to do, but quite possibly exactly what he went through in his durance, and very much a Fae thing to do imo.
                  The great overlap with werewolf (to the point it could be simply a lodge) is what made me go 'this fits perfectly'.

                  I mean, imagine a being with PTSD and a hate for what happened to them as part of the hunt, but with an innate desire to keep hunting, trying to find a positive outlet for this need.

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                  • #69
                    Okay, updated description of the Kindly Ones/Good Cousins. (With credit to Overlord62 for the initial idea of Autumn Courtiers interested in the Dark Mother)

                    Sometimes an oneiromancer gets lost on the Dreaming Roads and ends up wandering the Astral. Some sorcerers of the Autumn Court have heard of the Dark Mother and are curious about what kind of power they might be able to bargain for. When these changelings, by accident or intent, find their way into the Primordial Dream, they can potentially "go native," taking some of that place's dark Astral energy into themselves in order to survive there--but at a cost.

                    The Kindly Ones retain the Seeming and Kith they gained in Arcadia, though their mien often shifts to fit in among the Horrors of their new home. They must spend Glamour to maintain the Mask when in the material realm, and just as a Beast merges with their Horror when a Primordial Pathway opens, the Mask stops functioning when the Kindly Ones are in the Dream. They can open their own Primordial Pathways, but they do not have a true Lair; typically a Kindly One occupies a Chamber for a short time, moving on as it sinks into the Mists, unless they grow closer enough to a Beast to have access to its Lair instead.

                    Instead of Wyrd, the Kindly Ones have a Legend: this both protects them in the Primordial Dream and constrains them to act within its bounds. At high levels of Legend, the tension between their Legend and their life (represented by both their Needle and Thread) has a corrosive effect on their Clarity, making contact with their Touchstones especially important. Weakening their connection to the Wyrd is also a double-edged sword: they are harder for Huntsmen to track, and can escape from the consequences of broken oaths, but they lose most of their Contracts and the ability to bind or seal oaths themselves.

                    They still need Glamour--in fact, they tend to burn through it faster than normal changelings and thus need more of it--but can only harvest it from fear. Reaping Glamour from emotions other than fear is possible, but with a -3 penalty. On the other hand, they can harvest Glamour from far less intense fears than a Beast needs to regain Satiety, and they lack a picky Hunger driving them to particularly horrible acts. They are "Kind" or "Good" only by comparison to the Begotten, but the names stick.

                    Instead of Contracts, the Good Cousins have access to Nightmares, spending on Glamour for the high-Satiety effect and two for the Satiety Expediture effect. They retain a changeling's dreamweaving abilities, though, and can use them in the Astral as well as within a Bastion. All Kindly Ones add their Legend to any roll meant to produce dreamweaving successes (triggering a Clash of Wills if they're in a Beast's Lair) and they do not suffer penalties from Dream Intruder or other related Conditions. This makes them potent enemies on their home turf.

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                    • #70
                      ...and here's a try at the flip side of things.

                      Jabberwocks
                      The eyes of flame, the claws that catch...

                      Beasts who build strong ties to their local Changeling courts will naturally end up in the Hedge from time to time, dealing with the denizens thereof. It's rare for one of the Children to accrue Goblin Debt--their own Nightmares and Atavisms are usually more than sufficient for their needs, and if not, their fae Kin are better at negotiating contracts. But if a Beast does carelessly rack up Goblin Debt, they don't merely acquire the Hedge Denizen condition; instead, they risk a far stranger transformation.

                      Jabberwocks are, strictly speaking, a type of monstrous hobgoblin. They are also, from the perspective of the Begotten, a kind of Beast Rampant, an incomplete Merger made possible by the Wyrd. The Horror is pulled from its Lair and dragged through the Thorns towards its human half, and while it's made of sterner stuff than mortal souls, it still takes damage from the process. The higher the Beast's Satiety when they take the last point of Goblin Debt, the more damage the Horror takes, which ironically means the resulting Jabberwock has a more human-looking mien (though it will always have a tell). At lower Satiety, the Horror remains stronger, and the Jabberwock is more fully transformed. Jabberwocks are not quite the mindless devourers that the Beast Rampant usually becomes, however -- many are quite capable of having an erudite conversation before they gobble you up.

                      While Jabberwocks trade Lair for Wyrd, they are capable of making a new nest in the Hedge, represented by at least three free dots in Hollow. This nest automatically takes on the Jabberwock's old Lair Traits, making it a comfortable resting place even for the most alien nightmares. Jabberwocks also tend to warp the Hedge around them, as the Begotten do, automatically applying Minor Lair Traits as Subtle Shifts and Major ones as Paradigm Shifts without having to roll hedgespinning dice. (The number of traits they apply this way is Wyrd/2, rounded down, starting with a Minor.)

                      Jabberwocks lose their access to Nightmares, but retain Atavisms regardless of how physically transformed they are. They also have the usual three Goblin Contracts they can activate, using Satiety rather than Glamour, and can buy certain hob-specific Dread Powers as Merits. They can regain a small amount of Satiety from Goblin Fruit, or by bargaining with mortals and Changelings, but in general they still must hunt and feed according to their Hunger and Family - they can even still enter mortal nightmares, by accessing the Dreaming Roads.

                      One thing Jabberwocks cannot easily do is find their way home to the Primordial Dream; they can no longer open Primordial Pathways, and their monstrous appearance makes traveling back Ironside a dicey proposition. If a Jabberwock does manage to return to the Astral, its homing sense for its old Lair kicks in, but it still must survive the agonizing process of the Horror ripping itself away from the flesh in order to become a normal Beast again. There is also the danger that the Lair may have been invaded in their absence--by Insatiables, Kindly Ones, Night-gaunts or other critters that haunt the Dream. For many Jabberwocks, it is better to remain in the Hedge and make the best of the situation than risk death trying to return to what they were.

                      The Council of Elves in Reykjavik tell of a Jabberwock that's hunted Iceland's Hedge since at least the 19th century, a massive feline creature they call the Yule Cat (Icelandic: Jólakötturinn). Formerly an Eshmaki Nemesis, the Yule Cat was lured into the Hedge by a troll named Gryla and tricked into taking on more Goblin Debt than she could bear. The Yule Cat's Hunger drives her to punish the lazy, though a Frailty keeps her inactive much of the year, hence her name. She tends to emerge ravenous from Gryla's Hollow in late autumn (traditionally, around the time the sheep get a last pre-winter shearing) and gluts herself on the indolent before retreating again shortly after Christmas. Spun wool thread or yarn is a bane for the Yule Cat, and a clever motley of elves and Begotten might be able to use that to control her depredations and perhaps even lead her back to the Primordial Dream.

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                      • #71
                        I have my own take on Tremere from the vamp side in my homebrew thread (in signature). On the less template mutation side i have an update of dead wolves for a bloodline, and two mage legacies, one mage/hedge focused and one beast focused.

                        On the ideas of mixing half templates, both are mostly conceptual but I've been pondering a ghoul/lost boy hybrid that's basically "what if the ordo made lost boys", and a dhampir/proximi hybrid that takes both the vamp and mage definition for Dynasty to make something descended from both.

                        Basic idea for the former is they run off a "vitae serum" which depletes automatically according to a modified protocol equivalent chart.

                        For the latter my idea is still hazy but Im thinking replace arcana with Themes for what blessings you can learn. And there'll be dynasty unique themes for that and for twist use.



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                        • #72
                          So, since Mummies look like they are the hardest for Hybridizing (due to their metaphysics and background), how would one do:
                          Mummy+Vampire
                          Mummy+Mage (Reference the Scroll of Ages and A'aru, maybe?)
                          Mummy+Werewolf (something like Guayota?)
                          Mummy+Changeling
                          Mummy+Beast
                          Mummy+Demon (Geomantic and Neithian Architecture hacking, Relic for Primum Core, compare/contrast Embeds and Affinities, and Exploits and Utterances?)
                          Last edited by Vent0; 04-10-2018, 03:47 PM.


                          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                          • #73
                            For Mummy + Beast, I think the easier hybrid would actually be Shuankhsen + Beast. While the Dark Mother and Ammut the Devourer are clearly intended to be distinct entities in fiction, a curious Begotten might well see enough parallels to think they're the same, and accidentally/on purpose end up enslaved to her. Unfortunately I don't know enough about MTC to figure out how to reconcile the Horror with the concept of Pillars, or I'd have a go at writing this up.

                            I really like the idea of a connection between Exploits and Utterances for Mummy + Demon.
                            Last edited by Mad_Maudlin; 04-10-2018, 04:04 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Outside of some fanmade Sekhem users, I think the problem is that unlike the other splats, Mummies all came from one empire and spread out later, instead of being worldwide phenomona. That makes ideas outside of "What if the Rite of Return used a [supernatural]'s corpse" or "What if some other splat figured out how to use Sekhem" are harder to justify without extensive fanon. And those two ideas are boring.

                              That said, the first one gives me an idea. A lot of weird stuff can happen with that rite that returns a Mummy to another vessel's body. What if the ritemasters accidentally use a Fetch and the rite is completed before the corpse falls apart. Sure, canon answer is probably that it's about as effective as trying to return a Mummy to a crudely made doll. But wouldn't it be more interesting if sentience were the deciding factor instead of materials? The mummy comes back to a body that it instinctively knows is just somehow wrong. Most of the time, the Mummy dies again pretty quickly when the body falls apart as the last of the glamour that sustained it drifts. But, sometimes one of the Relics the cultists have gathered is actually a Token. When the mummy sees it, they instantly hunger for it, grabbing it and instinctively drain its glamour to replace their body's failing reserves.

                              Basically, I'm not good with systems, but the point here is a mummy that has a second, even faster time limit than their descent. If they don't get enough Glamour from destroying Tokens or eating the flesh of fae creatures, they will literally fall apart into whatever the Fetch was made of. That glamour is also draining very fast.


                              A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                                Outside of some fanmade Sekhem users, I think the problem is that unlike the other splats, Mummies all came from one empire and spread out later, instead of being worldwide phenomona. That makes ideas outside of "What if the Rite of Return used a [supernatural]'s corpse" or "What if some other splat figured out how to use Sekhem" are harder to justify without extensive fanon. And those two ideas are boring.

                                That said, the first one gives me an idea. A lot of weird stuff can happen with that rite that returns a Mummy to another vessel's body. What if the ritemasters accidentally use a Fetch and the rite is completed before the corpse falls apart. Sure, canon answer is probably that it's about as effective as trying to return a Mummy to a crudely made doll. But wouldn't it be more interesting if sentience were the deciding factor instead of materials? The mummy comes back to a body that it instinctively knows is just somehow wrong. Most of the time, the Mummy dies again pretty quickly when the body falls apart as the last of the glamour that sustained it drifts. But, sometimes one of the Relics the cultists have gathered is actually a Token. When the mummy sees it, they instantly hunger for it, grabbing it and instinctively drain its glamour to replace their body's failing reserves.

                                Basically, I'm not good with systems, but the point here is a mummy that has a second, even faster time limit than their descent. If they don't get enough Glamour from destroying Tokens or eating the flesh of fae creatures, they will literally fall apart into whatever the Fetch was made of. That glamour is also draining very fast.
                                The most logical way to probably do a Mummy crossover is to ask "What if x became a Sadikh or Fasad?"


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                                CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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