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Awakening Kindred, Devoured Werewolves, and other Hybrids

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
    Um, I was agreeing that the messing with the Rite of Return is a boring idea.

    Also, seriously? No one has any opinion on my Glamour-vamp mummies?

    It's interesting, but... and the but is "sounds awfully complicated for what might mechanically be a vamp that drains glamour out nightly." You could arrive at the same sort of effect by "accidentally" incorporating vamp blood into the fetch's construction, and then at its "death" have the fetch arise as a Revenant--kinda.

    <sotto voce>
    Imagine a fetch that burns out its glamour nightly, awakening with a furious need to consume the dreams and emotions of others. Most easily drawn through blood, of course, since it's hard to be patient and soak it up slowly while you have twigs and moss falling off you. It's a kind of magic (thanks Queen!) how you even hang together, looking sorta normal, while the beast in your head (your heart being, after all, a pinecone) is off giving everyone around you literal nightmares when it isn't driving you into murderous rages. Are not and never were human: that's sure, even though you clearly see and even think human-like thoughts, and as you can pull yourself together (literally in some cases) your Clarity lets you perceive the world better and better.

    Pity that it's so hard to hold onto. Seeping out like the blood you drew in so temporarily.
    </sotto voce>

    --Khanwulf

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Wormwood View Post
      In other news: I think there are thousands of easy possibilities for Vampire-Uratha hybrids.

      Just take the weakness to Luna's favored metal, look at how Helios despises Kindred, and have a Hybrid that is weak to Gold rather than Silver.
      Or have them be so vulnerable to sunlight that they cannot even stand being in the full moon's light, which is essentially reflected sunlight. Or maybe the full moon's light is harmful for them because Luna also hates them?
      Or make them uncomfortable in sunlight (-3 to all actions, -2 with sunglasses on), but no longer dying from it. They'll have to hunt during the day, too, after all.
      So we have sun-sensitive, silver-immune but weak-to-gold hybrids. Let's keep going.
      Now, make a Clan-Auspice chart. Irraka-Nosferatu, Cahalith-Daeva, Elodoth-Mekhet, Rahu-Ventrue and Ithaeur-Gangrel. Starting with access to Auspice Gifts, as well as the Clan's unique Discipline. All other Disciplines/Gifts are considered out-of-Family and cost more. Clan curse applies, but general Kindred Curse doesn't. Keep the Auspice's Hunter's Aspect.
      Have both Spirits and Strix get a special interest in your kind.
      Play with other themes: so territorial they need to sleep surrounded by earth from their territory to gain WP from sleeping vs. as long as they sleep surrounded by earth from their territory, they do not have to pay Fuel to wake.
      Lose giant wolf form, instead gain chiropterean horror form aka Bat out of Hell.
      Blood Potency and Primal Urge become Primal Blood? Note to self- look for a cooler name.
      Primal Potency.

      Anyway, several really good things here: gold as a vulnerability. Add it to silver. You're shunned by the moon AND the sun, after all. Their half-spirit form during the day gives them reduced sunlight effects but a pervasive penalty to actions, as their half-dead flesh drags them toward sleep--check to that, very nice. Vulnerability to moonlight as well--cool. Makes tracking phases and dodging the stellar powers-that-be an important part of their twisted existence.

      Spirits would probably be rather cool with you, fellow predator and all that--fairly normal stuff. Stay way from Lunes and Helions however!

      Eating would be a matter of converting energy into Essence--which is probably a better stand-in than Vitae. You just... store the Essence in the form of Vitae, is all. And gain Essence from meat, spirits and spiritual sources, and from blood (which renders it useless for eating as well). Keep the breaking points toward Spirit and Flesh. Shapeshifting requires investment into Protean, or a custom version of it that places Garou form at 4 dots.


      This, plus most of the rest of the ideas in this thread, are ones that likely would serve best as either "oh look the Darkness is weirder than any of you expect!" Or something for a very carefully selected PC and player.


      --Khanwulf

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

        Primal Potency.

        Anyway, several really good things here: gold as a vulnerability. Add it to silver. You're shunned by the moon AND the sun, after all. Their half-spirit form during the day gives them reduced sunlight effects but a pervasive penalty to actions, as their half-dead flesh drags them toward sleep--check to that, very nice. Vulnerability to moonlight as well--cool. Makes tracking phases and dodging the stellar powers-that-be an important part of their twisted existence.

        Spirits would probably be rather cool with you, fellow predator and all that--fairly normal stuff. Stay way from Lunes and Helions however!

        Eating would be a matter of converting energy into Essence--which is probably a better stand-in than Vitae. You just... store the Essence in the form of Vitae, is all. And gain Essence from meat, spirits and spiritual sources, and from blood (which renders it useless for eating as well). Keep the breaking points toward Spirit and Flesh. Shapeshifting requires investment into Protean, or a custom version of it that places Garou form at 4 dots.


        This, plus most of the rest of the ideas in this thread, are ones that likely would serve best as either "oh look the Darkness is weirder than any of you expect!" Or something for a very carefully selected PC and player.


        --Khanwulf
        Has a nice ring to it. Let's go with that!

        I like those modifications, though I feel some sort of shapeshifting should stay, seeing how inherent it is to the Uratha experience to be able to change form / have many forms. Maybe keep a wolf/dog form, or similar animal, or maybe a Dalu-equivalent?


        Yes, that was what I was hoping to get, glad it worked out for you =) I feel like experienced players OOC are quick to draw on their vast knowledge (even if they don't apply it IC), and I feel the game is slightly more fun if it's not just your character wondering what's going on / happening to them. Plus I love the surprise effect (scene in my head:
        This is a werewolf game. One player agreed to trying out something new happening to his char. Story stuff taking place - finally, it hits. His pack did not expect one of theirs becoming a Helios-Shunned and twice-cursed 'werewolf' as ramifications of plot actions, and the IC parts of trying to figure out what is going on with their tribe mate will be doubly fun, because the players are actually trying IC and OOC to figure out whats going on: "It's not just a condition?" "Wait, he has Disciplines?!" "That's not Werewolf behaviour. That's not what werewolves do. He's not a werewolf. Maybe he somehow got Claimed?" etc etc. Don't try and tell me you don't like them bickering like that over something you did with the game =P)
        I also love the sensation of "I think I've figured this out" and last but not least, tinkering with themes and mechanics.
        Just take extra care it doesn't devolve into special snowflake syndrome - huge potential pitfal with everything in this thread, I'm afraid.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Wormwood View Post

          Has a nice ring to it. Let's go with that!

          I like those modifications, though I feel some sort of shapeshifting should stay, seeing how inherent it is to the Uratha experience to be able to change form / have many forms. Maybe keep a wolf/dog form, or similar animal, or maybe a Dalu-equivalent?


          Yes, that was what I was hoping to get, glad it worked out for you =) I feel like experienced players OOC are quick to draw on their vast knowledge (even if they don't apply it IC), and I feel the game is slightly more fun if it's not just your character wondering what's going on / happening to them. Plus I love the surprise effect (scene in my head:
          <snip>

          Just take extra care it doesn't devolve into special snowflake syndrome - huge potential pitfal with everything in this thread, I'm afraid.
          You can easily approximate the forms by mocking up Protean Devotions to cover that. One for each form, providing the benefits of each--except for lunacy, maybe, though throwing Nightmare into the mix could get close enough (this creature oozes "wrong" when it changes). Probably Protean 3, Nightmare 1, so 2 XP? Either the ST or the player would *want* to take at least one such form at creation, or alternatively you could mandate/award "Primal Beats" to purchasing such Devotions, Gifts (acquired more like Devotions, with cost and prereqs) and the like.

          Generally speaking it would not be a hard mashup to adjucate, but it would and should feel "off". That's the point.

          Part of the objective of the Chronicle that involves any of the strange splat-things in this thread, this idea included, would be to explore what a special, bloody snowflake it is and what that means to the World. Other PCs are special because they are the ones mixed up with it, in part, but you'd have to know and acknowledge ahead of time at the table what's going on, that this character is different, and they're going to get the poop end of the stick because of it.

          Ya buys yer ticket, ya takes yer ride.

          --Khanwulf

          Comment


          • #95
            Does SSS still apply to antagonists and NPCs? Or if they don't take over the game? Honestly, I find this notion that you can't make a character weird without ruining the game to be creatively limiting. As long as you're idea fits your Chronicle's tone and themes and they , whether NPC or PC, don't attempt to make the game revolve around them to the exclusion of other player's favorite plots, I don't see the problem. Any problem with "special snowflakes" is something that could happen with a normal character with a selfish player just as easily, though I will admit that, along with trying to bring up their tragic backstory at every moment, making their character mechanically special is one potential sign of that sort of player.


            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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            • #96
              Khanwulf
              I completely forgot about Devotions mechanics, my bad. That sounds like a fair starting point.

              Master Aquatosic and Khanwulf-
              I should have clarified; indeed having something rare and weird and different and special can be extremely fun to every party involved (I did, after all, start this very thread for the explicit purpose of doing just that!) - but those wielding this great power carry great responsibility, lest they devolve the game into "I am the last White Howler" or "I am (inexplicably) a Second Generation Fledgeling" or even "I am Haights!" (to pick some less savory WoD examples) =P
              For clarification, I refer to my favourite wiki:
              Originally posted by TVTropes
              Some gamemasters will forbid this kind of behavior, rolling their eyes at the guy who absolutely must play a dragon thief, Chaotic Good Drow ranger or an Avariel wereshark Elemental Archon of Fire. Making an interesting character has nothing to do with having an obscure background and grab-bag of powers, and everything to do with how well the character is played.note Of course, Fridge Logic might then suggest that if they indeed have nothing to do with it, all these things aren't automatically a hindrance to making an interesting character either...
              Special Snowflake Syndrome can be good, and fun, but usually it's a pejorative directed at the above case of people confusing 'being somehow exceptional' with 'being interesting', no longer putting effort into anything due to some twisted sense of entitlement. Mary Sue-ing away, in a way.

              That's what I was referring to.
              As long as one can avoid this pitfall, all's good and well. (And yes, I think SSS can apply to NPC as well if their 'special' status chomps up spotlight for the PCs beyond what is appropriate for any given McGuffin. Or maybe that's just another trope entirely.)

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              • #97
                Wormwood
                I actually think the readers and certainly the posters understand the point is less "this is a weird X" and more "this is how a weird X is arrived at and used". The distinction is important because it cuts to the heart of the SSS issue and steers it away into usable plotting. A character is not a SS (or even a Mary-Sue) if the focus is on the why and how and where do we go with the status.

                Contrived example: if you're playing House: the Medical Role-Playing Game (probably based around the Smallville system), and an NPC is wheeled in with a strange and potentially unique condition, you could argue that they are a special snowflake... but what everyone will jump in and start doing is dissecting how it fits with their plots, what it means, and how to cure it or enable a normal life. If the PC is the one with the strange condition--they're probably playing House himself, and the point is not that they're weird, or not all the time, but more on how they contribute to the story and the plots (plural) of those characters around them.

                End diversion, even if a needed one. Back to strange mixes.

                ---

                You can get a very functional kind of hybrid werewolf and vamp-ish thingie by starting from wolf-blooded, and then layering things onto it. Wolf-blooded is odd in that it explicitly stacks. I haven't teased out why that design decision was made, but it may be because you only really get two things: a Tell (Merit) and access to more through Merits, and immunity to Lunacy. You could as ST simply handwave that the embraced wolf-blooded can continue to use their Tell(s), and/or fuel them with Vitae versus Willpower. A ghoul WB with the right Tells could easily mimic lightweight versions of werewolf powers, including wolf form, essence pool, and etc. It all comes down to the power level of your game, really.

                Keep in mind that with very little ST fudging you could have the other slew of supernatural Merits out there work while a different splat. Maybe not vampires with pyrokinesis, but the others, sure! Fuel with Willpower per normal, or if you want to be generous Essence/Vitae/Glamour/whatever energy.


                --Khanwulf




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                • #98
                  So, another half-baked concept. This is supposed to distance itself somewhat more from the original source materials than my other ideas.
                  Originally, this name was supposed to be for a Werewolf-Beast mix, but... eh, I went somewhere else with it.

                  Shoggoth
                  Long, long ago, there was a civilization that did something unthinkable: it carved out their existence in the Dark Mother's Lands. Through some occult means, they managed to brave the place when they stranded there, and lived of the Essence of the Primordial. They were forever changed. Those that could use magic used their abilities to create living tools from the mere common populace - alas, they overestimated their skill in keeping these things under control, and after bloody war, were wiped out by what they had created.
                  Their creations, however, lived on.
                  Rather than being Devoured by a Horror, their flesh and the Primordial Ephemera became one. These Shoggoths are derived from the Unification of Spirits and Primordial Goetia. The human intellect is changed, but not as simplistic as a Horror's. Most of all, the Shoggoths feel that they have inherited (or rather, stolen) the tools to change the world, and they have one goal only: to ascend to become higher beings, the very same they've overthrown.
                  Shoggoths hunger for three things only: Death, Fear and Madness. Murder satisfies them as much as intimidating someone or driving someone laughing mad. However, murder only satisfies them when they are almost out of Essence and Starving, and they need to partake of their prey to gain essence. Fear and Madness make for much tastier meals.
                  To Uratha, they look like a very nasty Magath has Claimed one of theirs. To Beasts, they look something like Insatiables, albeit they are still kin. As such, neither group really likes them much.
                  Shoggoths have an intense need to built and create - but they lack any spark of creativity, being condemned to forever crudely imitate others. Once a Shoggoth has taken root in a place, it will try to eradicate competition, and try to create more of it's kind through occult geomantics. And this is how a character might end up becoming a Shoggoth: they entered (or were lured to) the wrong place at exactly the right time, and their flesh was suffused with Ephemera and occult energies.
                  They are now a monster.


                  Mechanical Ideas:
                  Power Stat is Eldritch Might (1-10). Fuel is Essence. Starving/Sated/Gorged apply, Ravenous and Slumbering do not. Instead, when dropping to 0 Essence, the Shoggoth looses access to all supernatural abilities, and gains the Deprived condition. Each hour at this state, they take one Lethal.
                  If at or above Essence 10, the Shoggoth cannot spent Essence, and starts oozing one Essence every hour until they hit Essence 4. This

                  Gains Eldritch Might in Health. Gains the ability to use True Form.
                  Extended interaction may cause Suspicion (take Disquiet as a template for this).
                  All Crafts and Expression rolls lose the 10-again ability.

                  Shoggoths start with one of these Atavisms for free: Cyclopean Strength, Looming Presence, Limb from Limb, Relentless Hunter, Siren's Treacherous Song, Monster from the Deep, Skin Deep, Infestation, Alien Mindset, Enemy Within, Safety is an Illusion, Crushing Coils, Death of Light, Ravenous Maw, Heart of the Ocean. They cannot purchase other Atavisms. Shoggoths cannot have more Atavisms than their [Eldritch Might x 2].
                  Shoggoths start with one of these (modified) 'Tells' for free: Eldritch Meat (Wolf Meat, but rather than Silver take a vulnerability to Acid; this vulnerability supersedes any sort of Immunity), Anger issues, Clever Fingers, Fuck Ugly, Pretender's Skin (slime oozes out rather than fur), Piercing Eyes, Eldritch Tongues (speak nonsensical High Speech)
                  Shoggoths cannot inflict Lair Traits, they may, however, acquire Environmental Immunity against a certain Tilt at Eldritch Might 2, 5, 7, 9. They start out with 2 Environmental Immunities.
                  Shoggoths can buy all common Nightmares, and start with one for free.

                  They can perform Geomantic Rites, which are similar to Infrastructure, and can have a variety of plot effects (up to trying to create more of their kind).
                  Advanced and Epic Merits are okay to get.
                  Upon spending some Essence, they can transform. They Inflict temporary Madness on onlookers when they unleash their hellish True Form, which is a giant, writhing mass of ever-changing meat. The Shoggot gains Eldritch Might x 3 points to be distributed between their Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, and Size. In True Form, they do not need to breath, but also lose their senses of smell, sight and sound. Instead, they perceive the world through some sort of electromagnetic field.
                  They can stay in True Form for [Eldritch Might x2] turns. After this, they need to roll Wits+Resolve to not lose themselves to the urges to built something to 'ascend' out of any material available.
                  If they do, they become a Storyteller Character for the rest of the scene, off to built, ignoring anything but the most egregious damage. Afterwards, they wake up with the Abruption Condition.

                  Heroes cannot place Anathema on them, but anyone with the right occult knowledge and tools can access their Bans (varying from Acid, to incantations etc,)

                  Feel free to change things up.



                  Edited in to not forget about it:
                  Sooo, I had this thing bugging me.
                  Here's the thing:
                  We know powerful Beasts can qualify as Totems for a Pack. The question is, can Packs qualify as Cults?
                  I mean, it would be ingenious to have a Cult-Pack for several reasons, but I feel like it's sidestepping a lot of questions - can Uratha even be dimly aware enough of the Dark Dream to qualify? What would an Uratha-Herald look like, if they are even possible? How would Harmony changes map to Integrity loss regarding things like the Cult turning on the Beast? Most importantly, could an Uratha turn into a Hero? I mean, nobody wants a Hero-Uratha. That'd be horrifying. That's why it might be fun as a concept.
                  "Ya thought ya found a loophole, didn't 'cha? Well, turns out Supernatural based cults are more stable, but when they go wrong, they go wrong bad. Enjoy the mess ya made fer yerself!"
                  Also: should the Beast reach Incarnation, what would happen to the hypothetical Uratha-Herald?
                  Uratha-Beast hybrids probably have even stronger Lunacy effects, lose access to a lot of Gifts, but gain Nightmares and they Skeleton Key, maybe Passing Resemblance.
                  Last edited by Wormwood; 04-22-2018, 03:39 PM.

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