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Advice on gauging the Strengths and Weaknesses between Splats.

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  • #16
    Thank you iceblade!


    • #17
      Ah it's not much. I'm sure I'm forgetting something the Created has or doesn't when comparing to other splats.



      • #18
        So what about demons and Changlings?
        Demons I know are mean to be the "spies" of CoD so they have some options depending on their construction but that tends to draw God Machine. They can Burn their Cover for a scene and that makes them temporarily one of the strongest PC's there is easily. But the cost is high and they then have to get the hell out of dodge.
        Not sure about changelings or mummies.


        • #19
          I know it's a bit late given the last post that was done here, but if I may give a quick summary of my analysis, as someone who has tried practically every official splat plus a few fan-made ones:

          * Social experts and great manipulators; I know it was brought up above that only 3 of the Clan Disciplines actually deal with social things, but I feel Nightmare does as well (intimidation and tricking people through fear is an effective way to manipulate people, and can actually help a lot of you're smart in how you use it); blood bonds and predatory aura also both offers pretty neat advantages that all vampires have access to, both of which can make social rolls and Social Maneuver much easier.
          * Surprisingly good fighters: as mentionned in previous posts, vampires actually have a pretty decent fighting potential: the bonuses granted by the physical Disciplines are simple, but very effective, and even without said Disciplines, they downgrade to bashing most damages. Even their bite is surprisingly efficient - a vampire inflicts lethal damages when biting, and if he can maintain his prey long enough in a grapple, can inflict huge damages while refilling his Vitae bar. Well-built, a vampire is quite the killing machine.
          * Crippling vulnerabilities: despite being otherwise remarkably resilient and good in a fight, vampires have two huge, easily accessible weaknesses; their vulnerability to sunlight makes it difficult for them to operate during daytime, and fire, compared to things like silver or cold iron, is relatively easy to get even for humans, to say nothing of all the splat who have integrated flamethrowers as a supernatural ability. Resilience can somewhat balance things out, but it's still troublesome - especially since unlike other splats vulnerable to fire, they got no resurrection to make up for it.
          * Quickly depleting fuel: again, already mentioned above, but Vitae tends to deplete faster than other splats' fuel; you lose 1 per day, you have to spend some in order to heal instead of healing passively, and most genuinely powerful effects in Disciplines cost Vitae. Moreover, the drawbacks for low Vitae are much worse - less than 5 Vitae makes you more likely to suffer Frenzy. Luckily, Vitae also is relatively easy to access as long as you got humans available to feed on.


          * Expert Brawlers: While we already pointed out how Vampires can actually rival with werewolves in combat if well-built, I feel it's good to point out Werewolves still are killing machines when it comes to brawl; they have access to five very versatile forms granting each a variety of powerful bonuses, a bite that deal lethal damages even to supernatural opponents, and while they lack natural armor, their healing factor lets them recover in a matter of hours from wounds that would cripple a human - or seconds if they use the Warform. And all of this is before applying the Gifts; even a weak werewolf will usually be more than capable of slaughtering the average opponent and come out with little more than scratches.
          * Really good at teamwork: fittingly for pack hunters, werewolves tend to be at their full potential when they work together; the various Auspice work great together, they have a surprising number of Gifts based on upgrading teamwork, and the benefits from forming a Totem are huge.
          * Bad long range fighters: while damn good at hand to hand combat, werewolves have very little when it comes to long range attack; most of their forms either can't use firearms or do not have that high Dex bonus when using them, and they do not really have any Gifts focused on upgrading their use; the few Gifts that allows for long Range attacks are either not that strong or require high level to be truly efficient. Admittedly, they can dodge firearms and move fast, so it's not that big of a problem, but still, in situations where opponents are hard to reach in melee, that can be crippling.
          * Masquerade-unfriendly: werewolves need to shapeshift to show their true potential as fighters- and giant wolves do not really make for something that would go unnoticed; unlike vampires, who can more or less use their Disciplines in subtle ways while still looking humans. Lunacy somewhat diminishes that issue, but it's still present.


          * Incredibly versatile: fittingly, Mage are incredibly versatile in what they can do; even a starting mage will know dozens of spells, and regardless of the Path will have access to a variety of abilities, including causing damages, protecting himself, reading or analyzing things, and at least two Mage Armors. Moreover, spells have effects that can be customized using spell factors and reach, allowing very precise effects. A high levels, Mages are a nightmare for STs to handle - because they can get out of almost every situation if the player is creative enough.
          * Investigation and mental experts: Aside from the variety of analyzing spells they start out with, Mages can sense the supernatural with Mage Sight, analyze things down to the various concepts in them, and take time studying a Mystery. This make them very good at understanding things, recognizing the supernatural, and investigating.
          * Squishy: While this can be compensated by using Mage Armors or protection spells, Mages are exactly as resilient as a normal human by default; they got no supernatural toughness like vampires, and while they can heal themselves, this is costy in Mana unless they are into Life Magic.If caught by surprise or unable to use Mage Armor, they're relatively easy to kill. They also have no passive hand-to-hand abilities, meaning that unless they boost themselves with spells (which unless they are from the Adamantine arrow need an instant action to use), they're only as powerful as a human in hand-to-hand combat.
          * Can't use magic in front of humans: most templates only have to worry about human witnesses in that they must cover up after it; but for mages, human presence means their powers either fall apart or go out of control. This makes it extra difficult for them to use their most overt powers and forces them to be more subtle..

          I'm planning to add the others later.
          Last edited by Darinas; 10-03-2021, 07:02 AM.


          • #20
            Pursuing my analysis:


            * Highly customizable:Changelings are, compared to vampires or werewolves, remarkably customizable at character creation; between the Seeming, Kiths, Courts and variety of abilities granted by Contracts (which you get no less than 6 of at character creation), you can pretty much make a changeling good for almost everything, be it a brawler, a long ranger fighter, a social character, a mental character or so on. That debatably applies to most templates of course, but it's extra true for Changelings, with only Deviants capable of rivaling them (though Demons come close)
            * Trickster archetypes: Fittingly for Fairy Tale-inspired characters, Changelings have a lot of subtle yet surprisingly powerful powers in Contracts, which they can access easily and even not need to spend Glamour on if they can use loophole. The Mask helps cover the more blatant supernatural stuff they do as well, meaning they do not need flashy transformations like werewolves. They are master escape artists thanks to portaling, effectively making them impossible to catch unless you got iron restraints, and both Pledges and Oneiromancy can easily be used to trick others into doing what you want.
            Squishy: Changelings probably are the third squishest splat right after Mages and Hunters; while unlike Mages, the Seemings and Kith, as well as the Lethal Mien merit, do give them a edge in hand-to-hand combat, they're one of the only splat that distinctly lacks any form of healing factor. They do have Goblin Fruits to make up for it, but these require harvesting and run out eventually. So any wounds they suffer will actually be a pain to get rid of.
            * Large array of weaknesses: whereas most templates have only one or two big weaknesses, Changelings have one big (Cold Iron) but gain multiple new smaller ones as they grow more powerful - and unlike vampires, it's inevitable.Since these weaknesses are completely different depending on the individual, they do not necessarily make them too fragile, as their opponent won't immediately know what to exploit, but they can force Changelings into bizarre patterns of behaviours that will seem random or make them look eccentric - fitting given their Trickster aspect.


            * Weak but skilled: The Hunters' lack of supernatural trait is, paradoxally, a strength; since they don't have to worry about regularly spending 5xp to raise one, and Endowments either do not cost that much (1E) or don't really have a level to raise (2E) - not to mention compacts don't even have Endowment to begin with - meaning they get more Experience to spend on Attributes, Skills, and merits. Combine that with Practical XP (presumably in 1E only), and they tend to overall have much higher Skills and Attributes dots than the supernatural they fight, unless said supernatural beings are really old and experienced themselves - and even then, they raise theirs much faster. They also get lots of extra benefits from their Status, and at least 1 free dot in Professional Training, furthering their training..
            * Good social support: Hunters get a lot of bonus from Compacts and Conspiracies, special teamwork actions with tactics, and since they are 100% humans, have less to worry about regarding prejudices or covering their natures (with some exception like the Lucifuge). Lower Cells might still be treated like terrorists or madmen, the ones from larger groups can easily use human society to their advantage.
            * VERY Squishy: Hunters are by far the squishest splats in the setting; being 100% humans, they have no healing factor or supernatural resilience/protection whatsoever, even when taking into account the Endowments, which tends to be more focused on investigation and offensive than protection. Whereas other splats can theorically go without weapons or armor without too much trouble, these are absolutely vitals for hunters if they hope to survive direct fights.
            * Weaker on the long term: Though Hunters can, as mentioned above, raise their Skills and Attributes faster and higher than supernaturals, the lack of supernatural traits also means they have human limits, and thus cannot raise them above 5. Eventually, supernatural beings will go beyond them, and thus they can't hope to compete with experienced monsters in a fair fight.

            * Hard to kill: Prometheans are the second toughest template, right behind Mummies; they can flat-out absorb damage by spending Pyros, do not fall unconscious, treat crippling injuries as little more than an inconvenience, and get 1 resurrection (more for Osirian) should they die. Though their need electricity for their healing factor, the quantity of damages this allows them to heal is quite impressive. They also have little to worry from starvation.
            * Fast Learner: Fittingly for creatures whose entire deal is "learning to be humans", Prometheans are almost as fast to learn as Hunters; they do not need to spend XP to raise their Transmutations, since these are unlocked through progressing on the Pigrimage instead - and Vitriol XP is used for Azoth and Pilgrimmage, so they don't have to waste XP in these either. This allows them to focus all the XP they wins on Skills, Attributes and Merits - and unlike Hunters, they do not have a solid limit.
            * Terribly penalized in social: While it is theorically possible to build a Social-oriented Prometheans (they have social skills and some Transmutations like the Eros ones are social-based), Disquiet always is a sword of Damocles hanging above their head, which can quickly ruin things on the long term if they're unlucky with their rolls. Quick influences or social rolls are feasable, but long-term interactions like Social Maneveur with anything else than other Prometheans or Beasts will be a pain.
            * Inconsistant powerset: unless Prometheans invest Vitriol to fixate specific Alembics, their powers change constantly as they have to switch Refinements, basically playing a "Discard and Draw" game with their powerset. This can quickly cause a problem if they do not have Attributes and Skills adapted to the new Alembics they take on - which is where the extra XP from Fast Learner comes in handy.
            Last edited by Darinas; 09-15-2021, 12:02 PM.


            • #21
              Next roster:


              * Resilient: Sin-Eaters are only outclassed by Prometheans and Mummies when it comes to being near-unkillable; Plasmic Healing allows them to downgrade damages and remove physical titls both after the fight and while they happens, they do not fall unconscious nor bleed out, and as long as they got more than 1 Synergy left, their Geist can bring them back to life. This is balanced by their bane and the Death Resonance thing,but since those are uniques for each Sin-Eaters, they're still harder to kill than, say, Werewolves or Vampires. Sin-Eaters can take prodigious amount of punishments.
              * Paranormal Investigators: Thanks to their ability to see ghosts, Sin-Eaters are good at solving mysteries, especially ones related to murders or death; they can ask ghosts for help, use the Oracle or the Memoria to collect informations, or travel to the Underworld to learn further details.
              * Slow-activating powers: All Haunts require an instant action to be activated, including the ones like the Caul of the Rage which are needed to use offensive powers; as a result, Sin-Eaters are more efficient when they get at least 1 turn of prep time, which can be used as an opening if you take them by surprise - though Plasmic healing prevents it from being as problematic to them as it is for Mages.
              * Magikarp pools: All Haunts require Synergy + Haunt dots as their activation pool; given that Sin-eaters start out with a single dot of Synergy and three dots to distribute between their Haunts, that means their base activation pools will be laughably small compared to other splats - at best 4 dices if they chose to focus on a single Haunt. Keys allow to bypass that issue, but unless you get in situations matching their Resonance, using them will cause severe drawbacks because of the Dooms, requiring good management. Luckily, that problems becomes less of one once you sufficiently increase your Synergy - which happens fairly fast if you complete the Remembrance scenes.


              • #22
                Really looking forward for the next splat breadowns by Darinas


                • #23
                  Great series of posts Darinas. A few points I've noticed in the chronicles I've played in:

                  Disciplines: The physical Disciplines (Celerity, Resilience, Vigor, and - if you count Thousand Years of Night - Praestantia) have a few big bonuses that other splats rarely possess. First, they raise the corresponding Physical traits constantly - many abilities possessed by other splats require activation and have costs associated with them. Secondly, these abilities can be taken all the way to 5 dots and it's not prohibitively expensive to do so. Other splats that get a permanent bonus to an attribute (such as Prometheans, or Beasts) usually need to raise their power attribute to increase the bonus granted. A third bonus is that these powers also have powerful active effects that would probably be their own separate abilities for most splats.
                  Ephemeral Entities: Vampires have almost no way to deal with ephemeral entities. If they're locked in a room with an angry ghost, angel, or spirit in Twilight and that entity has access to the Entropic Decay Numen, or worse Firestarter, the Vampire is pretty much boned.

                  Merits: You covered most of the Werewolf strengths, but I'd like to add that they have some of the best Merits for just making you better in combat. I don't know if there are any other splats that can buy an attribute up to two dots above the usual limit, or pick up things like permanent 2/2 armor through merits alone
                  Aggravated Damage: This is a side effect of the splat's focus on Spirits (who have banes) and of Werewolves' otherwise powerful regeneration, but Werewolves are one of the few splats have no way to deal agg directly (barring shenanigans with 5 dot fetishes) and also no way to heal agg except waiting for the usual amount of time (4 days for Werewolves). Most splats can at least expend a tonne of their main resource to heal aggravated damage. Werewolves can't even be taken to a hospital unless all the surgeons are supernaturals themselves (otherwise they will cause lunacy).
                  Never a dull moment: This isn't something that's in the Werewolf rulebook anywhere, it's just a consequence I've seen across all the Werewolf games I've played in. The Uratha really never catch a break. They have the local politics of 2 worlds to keep on top of. They have to police every Spirit or idiotic mortal who tries to cross the Gauntlet in their territory. They have to constantly battle swarms of Hosts who can never be truly eradicated and hold grudges. They have to keep supposedly friendly neighbouring Forsaken Packs from muscling in on their Territory, and they have to deal with the occasional straight-up raid by the Pure. They have to deal with every who-the-fuck-even-knows-what-this-is supernatural who decides to take up residence in their territory. They have to deal with every stupid group of humans with shotguns and silver buckshot who have learned just enough to be dangerous. Even your garden variety arsonist or serial killer is going to fuck up their territory's resonance and so they need to deal with that too. And every once in a while a Lovecraftian God might show up and guess whose responsibility that is? (And this is leaving out half the shit that's in Shunned by the Moon).


                  The Krewe: This also applies to Werewolves to a certain extent (though the Pack is much more loosely defined mechanically) but if Sin-Eaters are in serious trouble it's not unreasonable to expect that they can call upon a handful up to dozens of assorted mortals and ghosts to help them out. Even if their opponent is something powerful like a Mummy, they can't escape the action economy.
                  Resource Generation: Being able to gain up to 5 free plasm that ignores the normal per-turn limits using a Key is incredibly powerful. In fact it's so strong that in the Geist game I played in, no one ever elected not to use a Key to unlock a Haunt. Even if you don't use the Plasm right away, you can bank it (up to your normal limit) for later.
                  Costly Powers: Haunts are simply more expensive in terms of plasm than comparable abilities from other splats. This is mitigated for the 1-dot ability by the ability of Keys to unlock the Haunt as I mentioned above, but I think a lot of players look at the higher dot abilities from each of the Haunts and don't realise that a starting character is probably going to need to spend multiple turns to activate these abilities. Furthermore, lots of the really nice combat abilities apply on the next attack only, which will quickly become prohibitively expensive.


                  • #24
                    All werewolves can eat the victim, which is a bite attack which both deals aggravated damage and refills Essence. Unfortunately only works on humans and wolves. Less relevant today, but they also automatically deal aggravated damage to pangaeans.

                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)


                    • #25
                      Thank you all, guys, glad my breakdowns are so appreciated^^ I had been thinking about these for a while, and I am happy to get the opportunity to write down my opinion on them.

                      Aurumae All very good points, especially the Ephemeral Beings part on vampires; I had thought of this, but I was so focused on sticking to my format of "2 strength 2 Weaknesses each" I neglected it.

                      Now, since so many people ask, here are the next roster:


                      * Ultimate Spies: While all splats have the potential to make for good infiltrators or spies, no-one hold a candle to Demons in that area. They automatically succeed on all their rolls to lie (even against supernatural detection like Mimir's Wisdom or the Elodoth's Half-Moon Gift), Spoofing means they can relatively easily avoid supernatural detection as long as their Cover is decent, using their Cover for Supernatural Resistence means they have higher pools to resist mind control powers, and their ability to form multiple Covers which they switch between means they effectively create themselves multiple identities to play with. Embeds also are remarkably useful yet subtle powers which they can use without worrying about breaking the Masquerade or going noticed.
                      * Powerhouse: The Beast the Primordial Corebook describes Demons as being, along with Mummies, "The strongest thing in the World of Darkness" - and it shows. Some of their Exploits are ridiculously more powerful than they have any right to be given they cost only 2 xp to buy, and while the traits for the Demonic form are, individually, usually nothing to cry home about when compared to the powers of other templates, the sheer number of them you get means you can combine them to get a ridiculously powerful and versatile Demonic form that is almost as customizable as Changelings and Deviants. And that's not even getting into the stuff you get when you decipher the Cipher and acquire Interlocks.
                      * Low Profile: Paradoxally enough for their power, Demons are somewhat trapped in their spy role, and can't afford to show off their ridiculous power too much; acting out of character, using Exploits and showing off Demonic Form all causes Compromises roll, meaning they risk themselves whenever they use their full potential - and since a Demon under his Cover is exactly as resilient as a human, that makes them vulnerable.
                      * Rare and dangerous to acquire fuel: In contrast with Changelings and Vampires (who can acquire their fuel on humans by doing minimal effort) or Werewolves (who just need to go hunt spirits or wait for their Auspice moon), Demons mostly recover their Aether by getting in contact with Angels and Infrastructures - meaning unless they got Suborned Infrastructures, they have to actively go seek the very beings that are dangerous for them and try re-fueling right in the middle of enemy bases. This makes attempts to recover Aether risky and difficult, so they often have to ration.

                      * Unkillable Powerhouse: Behold, the hardest template in all the CofD games to kill! Mummies combine Vampires' agelessness and ability to downgrade lethal damages to bashing, a Healing Factor only slightly less good than Werewolves, the Prometheans/Sin-Eaters ability to resist being knocked unconscious, and the Sin-Eaters' ability to resurrect by sacrificing a dot of supernatural trait - only they lack any Bane to prevent the resurrection, and running out of Sekhem will merely delay their return a lot rather than permanently kill them. Along with their ability to "Seal the Flesh", which effectively lets them further delay their death and heal faster while doing so. On top of that, they're just absurdly powerful: as all of you probably already know, they start with their Supernatural trait at 10, They can spend Pillars to increase their physical Attributes, and their Affinities and Utterances provide a large array of polyvalent powers, some of them insanely powerful; even toward the end of the game when they get weaker, they still are nothing to shrug at.
                      * Cult leaders: Though Mummies are primarily know for their raw individual power, I think it's worth mentionning they also have an important social structure; a starting Mummy will usually have a Cult at her beck and call, who can actively help them move into human society, arrange things for her, help her travel, and provide support to cover their tracks, find allies, etc. This is especially noticeable because it's one of the few powers a Mummy has that won't automatically diminish as the game goes on, making it very reliable. Not to mention having access to a Tomb that can serve as a solid base of operation.
                      * On a timer: I think it's well-known too, but while Mummies start out as god-like, they gradually weaken over the course of the game as their Sekhem drops, making them progressively less tough on the long term. Even at their weakest, they still are very dangerous admittedly, but this is still a downgrade - and more importantly, they have to return to sleep once they drop to Sekhem 0. This forces them to act fast for the time they are up, and can become an issue for long term Crossover chronicles (Personally I solved that issue by having the Mummy periodically wake up for missions, and the player switch to another character while his Mummy's resting).
                      * Masquerade breaching: admittedly not as bad as Werewolves or Demons, but with the exception of Affinities, most Mummy powers causes their Sahu to reveal itself or have blatantly supernatural consequences, allowing people to notice them; further, Sybaris gradually makes it more likely that people will investigate and maybe try harming the Mummy, unless they join the Cult. For these reasons, Mummies cannot afford to be too open about their god-like powers.

                      Beasts and Deviant will be next! I hope you're still enjoying these!
                      Last edited by Darinas; 08-12-2021, 08:55 AM.


                      • #26
                        Final roster for the official splats:


                        * Crossover-friendly: Beasts was designed with crossovers in mind, and for this reason, they work really well within games that include other templates (except Demons); Kinship abilities allow them to recognize other monsters on sight, socialize with them, blend in with them, and support them, while themselves getting benefits such as Family Dinner or Kinship Nightmares. Even outside Kinship, their Lair Traits benefits from having other Supernaturals helping apply them in the real world, and a Lair in itself provides for a gigantic useful hideout for their kin. Whereas a lot of templates (Sin-Eaters, Hunters, Werewolves) work best when they team up with one another, Beasts are at their full potential when they team up with other templates.
                        * Offensive Powerhouses: While not quite on the same level as Mummies and Demons, Beasts still are quite impressively strong; Atavisms grant a variety of self-buff, attacks and powers that lets them completely overwhelm their enemy, Lair Traits allows them to reconfigure the field to their advantage, further harming the opponent, and Nightmares have a variety of debuff to mess with their ennemy both socially and in combat. The Horror form might be more troublesome to activate than Demonic Form, but once it's here, they get stats on par with Ephemeral beings. With the exception of Nightmares, most of these abilities are dependant on your Lair dots, which admittedly means they won't start out that strong - but once you start raising it, they become ridiculously powerful.
                        * Complex Fuel Management: Like vampires, Beasts lose Satiety over time, albeit less fast, and have to refill it regularly. However, whereas vampires only have to worry about keeping their Vitae above 5 and never fall to 0, Beasts also must worry about not raising it too high (which would make them powerless) or too medium (which would leave them vulnerable to Heroes' Anathema). Moreover, unlike practically all other splats, their Satiety bar doesn't increase with Supernatural Trait; it's stuck to 10 max. This overall forces Beasts to pay much more attention to their fuel than most splat and manage a delicate balance.
                        * Human fragility: While Beasts do have plenty of interesting passive abilities, it's worth noting none of them are physical; by default, they do not have any supernatural toughness like vampires, and while they can spend Satiety to heal, this is an ability only available while in their Lair. They are entirely reliant on their Atavisms to get physical supernatural powers -and with the exception of Unbreakable, all defensive ones are reflexive. Beasts who do not have Unbreakable and are taken down by surprise will be as resilient as normal humans, and thus easy to kill.

                        * Highly versatile and customizable: Deviants are the only splat that can even start to compete with Changelings when it comes to being customizable; when creating your Deviant, you get to chose all their strength, powers and weaknesses, allowing you to do practically anything you want, and their power list incredibly rich and varied. It's possible to do just anything from a brawler, to a long-range fighter, to a healer, to a rogue...
                        * No Fuel: Deviants distinctly lack any form of fuel like Vitae or Essence, meaning most of their abilities are free to use, with only a few of them requiring Willpower expenditure or Lethal damages to be used more than once per scene. Considering how powerful some Variations can get, this is actually a pretty impressive advantage.
                        * Limited supernatural trait: Unlike all other templates, the Deviant's Supernatural Trait, Acclimation, only goes up to 5. Aside from giving them a smaller pool on Clash of Will and rolls for supernatural abilities, this effectively means they can never raise their Attributes and Skill above 5,giving them human limits similar to Hunters - though unlike them, they can go around that issue with the Increased Attribute Variation.
                        * Obsessive damage psyche: While goals and Touchstones always are an important part in any CofD game, this is especially true for Deviants; the game's mechanics quite literally and violently punish you for not focusing on your Touchstones, as doing another task for too long will either causes you get new scars or slowly kill you. This isn't too big a problem in a Deviant-only game where going after the Conspiracy (where your Conviction Touchstones will be) and protecting your loved ones (Which will likely be your Loyalty Touchstones) are the primary focus, but in a crossover game with more varied enemy, this can make things complicated.

                        There we go. I apologize if Deviant isn't quite perfect - due to how recent the game is, I haven't quite mastered it yet.

                        Let me know if you wish me to do fan-made splats as well^^ I only know 2 of them (Princess and Genius), but it could be fun!


                        • #27
                          Darinas Beasts can substitute Willpower for Satiety in the presence of their Lair Traits and all of their powers have unfueled options for their use.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 08-12-2021, 05:34 PM.

                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e


                          • #28
                            Satchel Wow, I had somehow missed that part! Thanks for telling me^^


                            • #29
                              I think an understated benefit of Vampires is that between Covenant powers and Devotions their range of abilities can be surprisingly varied. Devotions in particular can offer a surprising amount in the permutations or expansions of Disciplines, and they've got more latitude to develop them independently than, say, werewolves do. I think if one ever wanted to come up with a game pitting vampires against one of the others, it's a good idea to come up with Devotions that can come up with freaky effects and even tailor them towards challenging that opposition.

                              And I think an issue for mages is that there's a lot they require Mana for, but it might be one of the least common energy resources. Like, it's uncommon enough that breaking down their own bodies for it can be a good idea, and even that's still something they have sharp daily limits on. A mage that has been pressed to deplete Mana reserves quickly can have quite a few options cut down.

                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.


                              • #30
                                Isator Levi Mhm.... I had not taken Devotions into consideration because most of them require to have out of Clan Disciplines and thus are hard to acquire by default, but... yes, that's a valid point. Once you acquire them, they can be quite versatile.