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The primary pros and cons of the splats

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  • Primordial newcomer
    started a topic The primary pros and cons of the splats

    The primary pros and cons of the splats

    Basically I'm asking about what each splat excels at and is...Well not bad, but lacking in. For example, werewolves are best at combat and have amazing teamwork, however, they do have a hard time socially and managing their enemies.

  • Wormwood
    replied
    Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post

    Cons- there is a negative for spending alot of pyros, as it quickens the area around you and forms a Wasteland. Have a bunch of prommies spamming as much as they can and there's even a chance a Firestorm will form. Though it would take a bit to get to it. Also it's relatively not easy to obtain pyros and you normally get it gradually so whether you can spend all you have or not is something you don't.consider until your really desperate since doesn't always come in supply
    .
    Well, as long as you're in a City, both healing up and refueling Pyros are pretty easy - just find something electric (power outlet can be enough), and do the things you're not supposed to do, e.g. touch the wires, put a fork in it etc. As long as you don't just cause a short-out, you get an enduring source of Pyros.


    "Rebuke the Shroud" is something I want to call special attention to, because it basically means the Promethean becomes undying until his goal is fullfilled, even being topped out on Aggravated damage doesn't stop them - and it lasts a whole scene. Better yet, if they manage to get a source of electricity within a few turns afterward achieving the goal, they can still save themselves. In a fight, this makes them as much if not more of a lasting opponent than a Gaoru-Form Uratha. Titan-only, yes, but since Ferrum is a common Refinement, and Calcifying is a thing, it wouldn't be totally out of the ordinary to come across Created with the proper Alembic.

    Oh, and Prometheans occasionally get visions and Quashmallim support in dealing with their state of suck. Opaque help, sure, but better than nothing, so I just wanted to throw this out there.
    Last edited by Wormwood; 07-21-2018, 06:38 AM.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
    Ahh ok, so vampires really, REALLY have to worry about resource management, because even making it alive in combat could just end with them starved and giving into the beast.
    Put it like this: vampires get no free resource recovery over time and (contrary to werewolves, ironically) have a direct core mechanical incentive to maintain and stick to a territory with a secure stronghold and a means of actively generating those resources. They're built for the long game, and their means of handling short bursts of bad news are sufficiently limited that it taxes their stockpiles to handle emergencies like that in a sustained manner.

    The flip side of that, admittedly, is that their common Disciplines include three always-on stat boosts that have direct relevance to violence, mobility, and survival — a character with multiple dots in Celerity, Resilience, and Vigor is going to be better at getting out of a bad situation and going to ground without a huge Vitae investment.

    What about prometheans themselves? Like is there truly a pro to being a promethean that ISN'T a centimani
    Prometheans who raise their Azoth and don't relish the prospect of exploding with mutagen on a weekly basis tend to effectively run in power-save mode when they aren't working on something that requires them to shift a lot of the Divine Fire, which, combined with the fact that electricity refills both Health and Pyros, gives them a differently-scaled counterpart to Demon's going loud.

    They only have to spend resources on power development for permanence, and even without spending Pyros they still acquire a suite of persistent bonuses, and many of their effects scale with Azoth; a character with even a single Refinement Furnace is particularly tricky to deal with because of this.

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    Yes, it was. The feed attack is mechanically inefficient. If you just make it as an attack, you can only get 1 Vitae, even in Frenzy. If you want more, you have to grapple, maintain control in the grapple, and use the feed move, which caps the amount of Vitae you can get by your Blood Potency.

    It's great if you're attacking a mortal. It's not great if you're attacking something powerful, including other vampires. I've actually had this play out in vampire games.
    I guess it is. Whether it's hard or not to maintain a grapple depends on the skill set of the paticualar vampire, it's not something they can all do. I think I was thinking the scarred condition would help more in a way but after rechecking I guess not.

    Primordial newcomer I don't know enough about Prometheans to get into it, but I do know it isn't a good situation for them, the purpose of the game is to stop being a Promethean, to become a whole person, and there's a lot that encourages it.
    yeah but the reasons for it isn't really because of their powers or how they are in combat. They can be really scary in combat, is just out of that it's nearly impossible to form a healthy social life as they destroy whatever they have or could create with them just being them.

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
    .

    What about prometheans themselves? Like is there truly a pro to being a promethean that ISN'T a centimani
    Um yes there are advantages for being a Prommie. While they have stuff that suck it's just about stuff around them, not about necessarily about themselves.

    I mean just from what I remember.

    1. They don't suffer wound penalties, that's pretty good.
    2. They can spend pyros to endure blows by canceling damage, another point.
    3. Can spend pyros to add a +1 to any attribute, regardless of restriction, this can be for momentary things but also for extended actions. So broader, while weaker but potentially more useful to what vamps can do with Vitae.
    4. They get 1 free revive, meaning that with them in the first place being very hard to kill now you can have them coming back for a round 2, likely now there favor.
    5. Nature of Alembics. They are a scene long, meaning you benefit from the entire combat, also note the powerscaling, that if you pay the cost for the most powerful ability you also gain access to the abilties below for free with no cost, all on top of the passive you have. Meaning you can very well spam, alot when it comes down to combat focused alembics.

    Cons- there is a negative for spending alot of pyros, as it quickens the area around you and forms a Wasteland. Have a bunch of prommies spamming as much as they can and there's even a chance a Firestorm will form. Though it would take a bit to get to it. Also it's relatively not easy to obtain pyros and you normally get it gradually so whether you can spend all you have or not is something you don't.consider until your really desperate since doesn't always come in supply


    - using a lot of their powers require to show disfigurements, and that leads to disquiet. When trying to keep that hidden for Alembics has you taking some nasty conditions so it's really having you choose between two very bad options.

    That's basically what I remember for the moment, anyone can correct me if I got anything wrong. But notice that the cons they have hasn't to do whether there weak or not, but it relates to the consequences of what they do. Being a Centamani or not makes no difference to what I said above, this is something all Created have. What Centamani has different is that they just have a unique Transmutation they can use others can't pretty much.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    Curious but does that take into consideration feeding during combat? The thing with vamps is that they can technically refuel anywhere and if they are running low they would have little motive to say no to try to refuel on the guys they are trying to kill anyway, especially if they are in a frenzy which makes it easier to do. I'm just wondering if that actually was looked on in the test, because to me on paper that is an advantage vamps have for a majority of splats in that they can get what they need right there in the battle (Well at least for most foes, they probably need some sorceries prepared or crazy devotions to do so against say ephermeral enemies, which Is something unique and unavailable to the splat as a whole)
    Yes, it was. The feed attack is mechanically inefficient. If you just make it as an attack, you can only get 1 Vitae, even in Frenzy. If you want more, you have to grapple, maintain control in the grapple, and use the feed move, which caps the amount of Vitae you can get by your Blood Potency.

    It's great if you're attacking a mortal. It's not great if you're attacking something powerful, including other vampires. I've actually had this play out in vampire games.

    Primordial newcomer I don't know enough about Prometheans to get into it, but I do know it isn't a good situation for them, the purpose of the game is to stop being a Promethean, to become a whole person, and there's a lot that encourages it.
    Last edited by nofather; 06-24-2018, 09:53 PM.

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  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Ahh ok, so vampires really, REALLY have to worry about resource management, because even making it alive in combat could just end with them starved and giving into the beast.

    What about prometheans themselves? Like is there truly a pro to being a promethean that ISN'T a centimani

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    Based on what we've seen from mechanical testing in combat, while vampires can deal a lot of damage, they have a big problem with Vitae usage. Their powers use a lot of Vitae for bonuses that work for one turn, that plus the potential for needing healing can mean they don't keep up with more energy-efficient monsters, combat-wise. But in a story, it keeps the PCs hungry and focused on feeding as an aspect of the game.

    That's not counting things like fire, stakes being an 'instant win,' improvised sorceries and so forth.
    Curious but does that take into consideration feeding during combat? The thing with vamps is that they can technically refuel anywhere and if they are running low they would have little motive to say no to try to refuel on the guys they are trying to kill anyway, especially if they are in a frenzy which makes it easier to do. I'm just wondering if that actually was looked on in the test, because to me on paper that is an advantage vamps have for a majority of splats in that they can get what they need right there in the battle (Well at least for most foes, they probably need some sorceries prepared or crazy devotions to do so against say ephermeral enemies, which Is something unique and unavailable to the splat as a whole)

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  • nofather
    replied
    Based on what we've seen from mechanical testing in combat, while vampires can deal a lot of damage, they have a big problem with Vitae usage. Their powers use a lot of Vitae for bonuses that work for one turn, that plus the potential for needing healing can mean they don't keep up with more energy-efficient monsters, combat-wise. But in a story, it keeps the PCs hungry and focused on feeding as an aspect of the game.

    That's not counting things like fire, stakes being an 'instant win,' improvised sorceries and so forth.

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  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Thank you Ever Professional. Would you say they have any disadvantages in terms of combat? From what I know, they are actually quite capable of taking on werewolves and are very tough

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  • Ever Professional
    replied
    I can only really speak for vampires, so here we go.

    Pros: Immortality, Better Night Vision, No real limit on what powers they may develop given time, the time to binge watch every show on their Netflix list (comes with immortality), the ability to be explosive killing machines at the drop of a hat, their likelihood of running any curse into the ground that's thrown on them before it can kill them, very hard to kill on most occasions, can eventually know someone in most parts of society.

    Cons: Immortality, bad sun and fire allergies, little to no ability to interact with ephemeral entities whatsoever, generally can't outlast opponents, being spiritually dead inside, may or may not lack an actual soul to speak of, their likelihood of turning into murderous killing machines when angered too much, can easily be killed with the right tools, their greatest enemy (the strix) is practically untouchable by anything they can do, have a bad habit of taking century long naps to find everyone they love is dead, and they may or may not be eldritch abominations.

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  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Ahh ok. Well how about general weaknesses and strengths, along with the ups and downs (if there are any) of being that monster

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
    Thanks @Tessie.

    nofather sorry for late reply. Basically I mean In gameplay, through a narrow scope, such as the werewolves black rage and vampires needing blood so much, but being able to use it for many powers
    Getting that granular would mean being here all day and invoking a lot of arguments.

    Not saying you shouldn't, just clarifying what you might be getting into.

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  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Thanks @Tessie.

    nofather sorry for late reply. Basically I mean In gameplay, through a narrow scope, such as the werewolves black rage and vampires needing blood so much, but being able to use it for many powers

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  • Tessie
    replied
    Here's another thread with a similar subject that you might want to read.
    As per my own post in that thread, I'd like to add that being good at combat is a vampire's largest strength compared to other splats. Including werewolves, if you compare mid to high level characters.

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