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The Purified

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  • ThriceHonored
    started a topic The Purified

    The Purified

    I wanted to update these immortals to 2e but to be honest... no idea where to start.

    Suggestions?

  • Dataweaver
    replied
    By the way, something else to consider: there's a big controversy over on the MtC board about non-Egyptian mummies. In principle, I don't object; there are, after all, at least three different kinds of beings in the Chronicles of Darkness that are explicitly referred to as “demons” (the rebels against the God-Machine; the intruders from the Inferno; and the natives of the Supernal Realm of Pandemonium). So why not have more than one kind of mummy?

    Mind you, there should still be only one type of Arisen, just as there's only one kind of Unchained. And the Arisen were all created by the pre-Egyptian Nameless Empire, using a once-in-the-entire-history-of-the-human-race ritual and fueled by the mother of all blood sacrifices. To transplant that to another culture would be a mistake. No; other cultures that give rise to mummies need their own history and their own kind of mummy, as distinct from the Arisen as the Infernal demons are from the Unchained.

    And that's where the Purified come in. The way they're presented in 1e, we know nothing about where the Purification ritual first came from: the oldest Purified don't remember anything any further back than a couple of millennia. I submit that it was originally devised in ancient China: that is, the first Purified were Chinese mummies. But unlike the ritual that created the Arisen, the ritual of Purification proved to be both more personal (creating one mummy instead of thousands of them) and replicable; as such, it didn't remain a Chinese monopoly — although it started out as one, and probably stayed that way for a while. There's a reason their Power Stat is called “Chi”…

    As such, I'd love to see a Dark Era dedicated specifically to the origin of the Purified, set in an ancient Chinese culture. If not as part of Dark Eras 2, then maybe as a standalone PDF supplement.

    I'm not proposing this as a rationale for all non-Arisen mummies; just as a “proof of concept” of the notion that mummies descended from non-Egyptian cultures are a viable part of the shared setting. If anyone does Andean mummies, I'd hope that their approach wouldn't be to “reskin” either the Arisen or the Purified, but would instead be to introduce something different from both.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 09-07-2018, 05:50 PM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Geist made it clear that a ghost is a copy of a living person, and has no soul (which is not to say that a ghost isn't a person; but that's a whole different issue). My take on the Purified is that their ritual creates a ghost, but then implants the person's soul into the ghost. This means that the Purified is metaphysically alive, even when he's projected into ghostly Twilight — pretty much the opposite of how a Sin-Eater is metaphysically dead, even though he has a living, breathing body.

    If they choose to stick with the Purified being tied to the spirit world, they ought to adjust the Purified to make them more inhuman. For instance, they should at the very least pick up Bans and Banes that intensify as their Chi increases.

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    Plus we already have splats that subsitute an entity from those otherworlds for a soul; the Bound and the Begotten. We would need to emphasize the differences between these hypothetical Purified from the 'core splats' and explain where both fit into the setting.

    Don't have to do that with the Uratha.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    I realize the distinction between "make a copy of you with all your memories" and "transform your soul into a spiritual entity" is kind of a fine one, but "immortal being tied to the most porous otherworld in the setting" is a different setup from the substitution pacts common to more death-focused means of immortality.

    Spirits are the furthest of the common ephemerals from normal humanity, but they're also the least constrained — some instances of Purified immortality might come with the debts and threats common to Shadow politics, but that's still a non-universal situation and you're nevertheless not stuck fighting to keep out of the prison of the dead or confined to the dreamlands or specifically serving as a cog in the vast engine of reality.

    It's a more vital sort of eternal life that pretty much only regularly interfaces with death through the fact of it being a type of immortality.
    Ah, it makes more sense when you put it like that.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Considering you're more likely to incarnate as a ghost than a spirit to begin with?
    I realize the distinction between "make a copy of you with all your memories" and "transform your soul into a spiritual entity" is kind of a fine one, but "immortal being tied to the most porous otherworld in the setting" is a different setup from the substitution pacts common to more death-focused means of immortality.

    Spirits are the furthest of the common ephemerals from normal humanity, but they're also the least constrained — some instances of Purified immortality might come with the debts and threats common to Shadow politics, but that's still a non-universal situation and you're nevertheless not stuck fighting to keep out of the prison of the dead or confined to the dreamlands or specifically serving as a cog in the vast engine of reality.

    It's a more vital sort of eternal life that pretty much only regularly interfaces with death through the fact of it being a type of immortality.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

    Purified aren't 'tied' to spirits; they became one. Or at least like one.
    That is why I have trouble seeing them connected to a different otherworld - how does one refine one's soul to become a ghost or an idea (goetia/dreamborn)? All before we hit the confusing alternatives such as Angels.
    Considering you're more likely to incarnate as a ghost than a spirit to begin with?

    THat's...an odd question.

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    Just a quick thought before I have to go: Wouldn't it be possible to tie Purified to a new type of entity? Not all minor things have to be related to bigger stuff.
    Purified aren't 'tied' to spirits; they became one. Or at least like one.
    That is why I have trouble seeing them connected to a different otherworld - how does one refine one's soul to become a ghost or an idea (goetia/dreamborn)? All before we hit the confusing alternatives such as Angels.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    Just a quick thought before I have to go: Wouldn't it be possible to tie Purified to a new type of entity? Not all minor things have to be related to bigger stuff.
    Oh, definitely. But what, though? And how would their existing Essence requirements work with said new entity?

    If going full Mummy-focused-lore, I could see them using Pillars instead of Essence, and using whatever wavelength of Twilight Mummies call Neter-Khertet (which is probably Ghost/Death Twilight, but could be another form that simply has a lot of association with Ghost/Death Twilight). As for what entities they deal with, well, humans weren't the only residents of the world, and there may be other servants of the Judges and/or Gods than just the Shan-Iatu.

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  • Tessie
    replied
    Just a quick thought before I have to go: Wouldn't it be possible to tie Purified to a new type of entity? Not all minor things have to be related to bigger stuff.

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  • milo v3
    replied
    I think it would be better suited for them to be related to a realm aside from the shadow because despite becoming "part spirit" they had no ties at all to the predatory animist ecosystem themes of the shadow. They were just monks and alchemists who could survive in a ghosty form while they repaired their bodies and had numina.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    I mean, their diverse origins probably have different effects on their traits and abilities, but ultimately they would be similar in "human becomes ephemeral-like to attain immortality". They probably wouldn't have so much in common that they are like the different Clans of Kindred... yet. But there would definitely be enough overlap that they could be characterized together.

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  • Tessie
    replied
    The Mortified, the Purified, the Personified, and the Beatified.

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  • LostLight
    replied
    well, my main problem with connecting the Purified to the Underworld is that I don't think that everything which comes from the Bellow can be called "pure".

    While I do think that many such "otherworld immortals" could be cool, I would prefer each to be treated as it own thing, instead of throwing them all under the same umbrella and call them "Purified". Personally, I would Risen/Revenant for the ghostly, Purified to the spiritual, Tulpa for the goetic and Prophet/Saint to the angelic, and treat each of them as a unique creature with its own shticks and tricks- but I always liked diversity where each critter use its own sub-system in my setting.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
    Well, I actually really do like the connection between the Purified and the Shadow, and would be kinda disappointed if it were to changed to the Underworld. It gives them character, makes them more unique than "yet another deathly weird thing", gives some distance between them and mummies, gives them an interesting dynamic with Hisil and overall, makes them interesting IMO, so I hope that that aspect of their existence won't be changed.
    Honestly, their basic concept is not tied toward one ephemeral type as opposed to ephemeral nature in general. You could easily have 4 types.

    Ghost-Purified are basically Ghosts or Doppelgangers who came back alive instead of undead inside their own body.

    Spirit-Purified either made their soul/mind Spirit-like, or imprinted a Spirit with their own personality.

    Goetia-Purified detacted and exalged their own mind into a separate entity, which has/can reclaim thier body as a material vessel.

    Angel-Purified were reconstructed by the God-Machine as immortal(-ish) Saint-Agents of its will.
    Last edited by Vent0; 08-19-2018, 03:00 PM.

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